Final Fantasy 14 is starting to lose appeal because...

[Obysuca]

LotA was also supposed to be out in 2.0.X, though. It got delayed a long time because they ran into tuning issues.

You'd think they would have fixed that too in 3.0, releasing that before the "harder" higher ilvl raids, but nope, still "higher ilvl raid followed by subpar gear raid" :/ Even that would have slightly given us more to do, so we'd get the option to gear up in that while farming tomes, rather than having full eso and either not even bothering with void ark gear or just using it on jobs we probably won't use.

Sad part is, I bet it was tuned fine, seeing as how it was incredibly easy. They're just trying too hard to cater to the super casual never played a game in their life, type of people, which ends up pushing away a lot of people who don't fit that category (casual, midcore, hardcore). Just like what they did with the lvl 15 MSQ fight. Had a little difficulty to it (I remember so many people wiping to this over and over) in beta, then nerfed to faceroll easy on release. Same reason we don't have a real pet job. Straight from SE was "It'd be difficult for new players". Ok? Then new players can either learn or just not play that job, why ruin it for everyone?

The potential for XIV to be great is there, but SE is holding it back by focusing too much on glamour, minions and super mega casual fluff content, rather than actual mmo style content. Like I've said in a few other topics, most people come to a mmo to actually play a mmo and do content. Theres specific games that focus on glamour/vanity, it doesn't need to be the main focus of a mmo (can be part, but not the main). The way XIV is setup and according to Yoshi himself, the "real game starts at endgame" yet because they focus way too much effort on vanity stuff, theres a huge lack of content at endgame, which is supposed to be "the real game".

All it's going to take to decimate XIV's remaining population is for a big new shiny mmo to come out, since SE puts too much effort into attracting the types of players (super mega casual) that flock from mmo to mmo, rather than the midcore/hardcore playerbase that keep mmos alive for 10+ years. It's fine to try to cater to both, as long as theres an even amount of content for both groups. But there really isn't in XIV. It feels like the content for midcore/hardcore people is just an after thought and tacked on in the end.

SE kinda has it backwards for XIV imo. For a business, a person who subs to a mmo every month, without breaks (midcore/hardcore players who can play for more than 5 hours a day, every day/month), bringing in more money for said company, should hold more value (not saying the people who play an hour or less a day have no value) than the people who plays a mmo like a mobile/facebook game (30 mins - 1 hour, only ~4 days a week and maybe 5-6 months a year, if that, super mega casual), which brings in less money. SE is focusing on the 2nd one.

Even if they fully focused on midcore/hardcore players and gave us a variety in content, there's still plenty for a super mega casual player to do, seeing as they take their time, don't play for long etc, by the time they get to cap, there'd be plenty to do. But with the focus on super mega casuals, everyone who plays for more than 5 hours, really don't have much to do. Seeing as how the super mega casual people talk about how theres "plenty to do", is mostly because they haven't experienced it yet since they don't play often. But for those who do play a normal amount of hours for a mmo (since a mmo is supposed to be a time investment, not pick up, play, put down whenever and never get left behind), we've experienced the little content there is, so there's not much to do for us. Like others have said, midcore/hardcore are the heart of a mmo, it can't survive for long, especially on a subscription, with only the super mega casuals.

Going to bring it up, because it's a valid point, but in XI, people rarely, if ever, got bored or ran out of things to do. They didn't up and unsub for months until another update. No. They kept on playing, bringing in more money for SE, both the casuals and midcore/hardcore people. SE knew how to balance which groups they catered too, rather than heavily catering to super mega casuals and know what? XI's lasted 13 years. There's a reason for that. Companies seem to forget that these days and try to go for a quick buck, rather than a steady flow of cash for over a decade.

A mmo, like many modern mmos, who focus too much on super mega casuals or people who have never played a mmo before, have been proven they don't last long, because of lack of content for the people who actually want to play a mmo, how a mmo was meant to be played. I'm not saying people shouldn't be allowed to play a mmo, but theres games specifically meant to be picked up and played whenever. A mmo shouldn't and hasn't (until the last few years, which explains why the majority of those modern mmos are dead), it's meant to be a time investment to keep people playing for as long as possible. If you can pick up and play a mmo whenever, there's really no staying power, especially when it becomes a lobby game (instanced everything, dead open world) so there's no incentive to make friends, which is a good staying power.

[adn]

Same reason we don't have a real pet job. Straight from SE was "It'd be difficult for new players". Ok? Then new players can either learn or just not play that job, why ruin it for everyone?

If you ask me the actual limitation for a real pet class is because of PS3/PS4. Try playing SCH and doing proper fairy micro with a controller while also healing and stance dancing for DPS. It's like training to be a concert pianist.

Also, the problem is when they add challenging or different content the more casual players run up against it, can't faceroll it, and proceed to yell on the forums until it gets nerfed. The most recent example I can think of is Steps of Faith, which honestly didn't need to be nerfed at all but because mechanix r tuff it got the nerfbat. Thus you end up with the current stream of highly casual content.

[Obysuca]

stuff

That could be true for the pet job. I'm just saying what SE said themselves on why we can't. Which is a pretty lame excuse imo.

I agree, steps didn't even need to be nerfed, but people cry for nerfs if it involves any sort of thinking or effort, which is pretty sad :/ All nerfing everything that comes out does, is allows the people who don't want to learn, to be carried through content and allows them to join into pts of people who actually want to clear the content, but those carried people are causing unneeded wipes, because they never had to actually learn and put effort into something because nerfapalooza.

Going to sound like a jerk, but I really feel those people need to actually put in some effort and learn to play, rather than crying for nerfs, killing any fun/difficulty for others who actually enjoy that sort of thing. Steps felt like an achievement pre-nerf when you beat it. Which was great, more things need that, especially gear (but gets outdated too quick and handed to you too easy to be an achievement :/ ), but people these days want a trophy just for showing up. The nerf whiners are kinda holding the game back too. Where's the fun in beating a boss or completing a dungeon, when it's so easy, you can do it in your sleep?

[Cidel]

Also, the problem is when they add challenging or different content the more casual players run up against it, can't faceroll it, and proceed to yell on the forums until it gets nerfed. The most recent example I can think of is Steps of Faith, which honestly didn't need to be nerfed at all but because mechanix r tuff it got the nerfbat. Thus you end up with the current stream of highly casual content.

Personally, I think the main reasons that "previously challenging content" like Steps of Faith and Pharos even get outcry for nerfs is because the dev team, for whatever reason, tacks them into bottlenecks that are bound to have these particular casual players passing through at regular intervals. Steps of Faith is a required trial for access to Heavensward, and MSQ, through the dev's designs, is a combination of faceroll-easy "fights" and click-and-talk-to NPCs littered throughout the world wherever the devs deign to put them; sometimes paired with a fetch quest. One of the biggest complaints was that a lot of players running it on their roulette immediately dropped-out upon loading into the trial due to how much of a headache the fight can end up being compared to everything else on that roulette. Pharos Sirius was dropped into the daily Roulette with 2 much easier dungeons, which offer the same rewards, prompting a lot of people to avoid it and take paths of least resistance.

So in my opinion, these contents that are dubbed to be "challenging" are thrown back at the devs by players who "don't want the challenge," are done so because the devs have decidedly shoved them down the throats of the facets of typical "casual content" that previously posed no real "challenge" at all. Don't get me wrong, I am not particularly defending the reasoning to why they were nerfed, but that it was inevitable since the devs decided to try posing a challenge and implementing them in the wrong places.

[Rakeesh]

All it's going to take to decimate XIV's remaining population is for a big new shiny mmo to come out,

"And the next MMO that is going to kill WoW..."

Standard talk of all people who are dissatisfied with the MMO they're playing.

Going to bring it up, because it's a valid point, but in XI, people rarely, if ever, got bored or ran out of things to do. They didn't up and unsub for months until another update. No. They kept on playing, bringing in more money for SE, both the casuals and midcore/hardcore people. SE knew how to balance which groups they catered too, rather than heavily catering to super mega casuals and know what? XI's lasted 13 years. There's a reason for that. Companies seem to forget that these days and try to go for a quick buck, rather than a steady flow of cash for over a decade.

Ah yes. FF11's ever growing population. At no point did they have to shut down servers due to underpopulation... oh wait a second.
Yes, FF11 was so beloved and played by so many they had to reduce their servers from 32 to 16. Obviously they kept gaining new players over the years that were interested in the gameplay it was offering. That is also why they kept releasing new expansion after new expansion. Like one in 2007 and then the next in 2013 and the last before they stop doing anything for the game in 2015.

You honestly can't say "oh people loved FF11 and kept playing and subbing to it" and when you look at the actual data, they lost so many players they had to shut down half their servers and barely invested any more resources in new content.

[Obysuca]

You honestly can't say "oh people loved FF11 and kept playing and subbing to it" and when you look at the actual data, they lost so many players they had to shut down half their servers and barely invested any more resources in new content.

The point being, the game is still up and has been on a subscription for 13 years and gave a variety of content, rather than 2 dungeons, 1 raid, which get outdated in 3 months, compared to the countless other mmos that are released and completely die off/f2p in 1-3 years. Know why there wasn't an expansion from the end of 2007 to 2013? Resources and funding were shifted towards 1.0 and 2.0. Yes, the game you talked about losing so many players, funded XIV not once, but twice, while still giving us things like Abyssea, voidwatch and other things. XIV's got full funding and can't even give us more than 2 dungeons and 1 raid that are thrown out in 3 months.

And yes, XIV has no staying power, huge lack of actual content that's not vanity, so all it will take is one big mmo to knock the population down. The difference in this and "This mmo will kill WoW" is that WoW did something different, the reason nothing killed it is because they all tried doing the same formula. The only thing that'll kill WoW is WoW, but anything with a variety of content and shiny graphics can kill XIV. The only reason XIV's held out for 2 years is because of Final Fantasy in the title. Without that, it would have disappeared a year ago like the countless others in the last 10 years and a name alone can't keep a mmo going forever if the content is stale.

[Rakeesh]

The point being, the game is still up and has been on a subscription for 13 years and gave a variety of content, rather than 2 dungeons, 1 raid, which get outdated in 3 months, compared to the countless other mmos that are released and completely die off/f2p in 1-3 years. Know why there wasn't an expansion from the end of 2007 to 2013? Resources and funding were shifted towards 1.0 and 2.0. Yes, the game you talked about losing so many players, funded XIV not once, but twice, while still giving us things like Abyssea, voidwatch and other things. XIV's got full funding and can't even give us more than 2 dungeons and 1 raid that are thrown out in 3 months.

You see... the problem is I don't want the same content to last me years. I want new dungeons and raids. I want new content at a steady pace. I want to gear up my characters in new and shiny gear and smash my head against raid bosses.I know that might come as a shock to you but I like the game the way it is. It's not perfect but it's a far cry from bad.

I do not want to farm equipment for months that will not change for years on end. If FF14 added stuff like that I would unsub and go to another game that offers the gameplay that I want. If a game doesn't offer what I want I go out and try a new game. I do not cry for the game to change to something it isn't.

It's called voting with your wallet. If the developers see enough people unsubscribing for the same reasons, they might consider changing certain elements of the game.

To bring up World of Warcraft again. This expansion the devs there announced they don't plan to continue adding flight in future expansions ever again. A week later they completely reversed their stance of 'no flying ever again' to 'we will allow you to fly please come back ;.;'.

[Whocareswhatmynameis]

You honestly can't say "oh people loved FF11 and kept playing and subbing to it" and when you look at the actual data, they lost so many players they had to shut down half their servers and barely invested any more resources in new content.

As much as you might not want to admit it. Obysuca is right. FFXI was one of the most popular MMOs at the time. It took them something like 10 years before they had to merge servers. I played it for 3 years and still didn't experience everything in the game. It took me 2.5 weeks to experience everything Heavensward had to offer, mainly because everything is just so easy and one-shottable on duty finder.

FFXI might not have been more fun than FFXIV. But it was definately fun for longer than 2 months.

[Rakeesh]

As much as you might not want to admit it. Obysuca is right. FFXI was one of the most popular MMOs at the time. It took them something like 10 years before they had to merge servers.

They actually did the first server merges in 2003. 3 servers went bye bye. It's true the next one was in 2010 so 8 years since launch.

I played it for 3 years and still didn't experience everything in the game.

Which again sounds terrible for new players. At least in my opinion.

It took me 2.5 weeks to experience everything Heavensward had to offer, mainly because everything is just so easy and one-shottable on duty finder.

Are we comparing several expansion packs of 11 with one expansion pack at release for 14 again?