Why does Ysayle want to protect Nidhogg? (spoilers)

[PogueX]

After failing at her quest to convince the luck dragon Hraesvelgar (sorry i had to say that cause he totally looks like he's from the never ending story)

why does ysayle get mad at Estinien for suggesting that they slay Nidhogg, since peace as failed and Hraesvelgar doesn't care that his brother destroys Ishgard then it's kind of foolish of Ysayle to still cling to the idea of peace? Especially after getting rebuked that she was Shiva reborn, i would think that she would be more inclined to want to fight the dragons. It makes me think that ysayle would rather have dragons destroy Ishgard rather than see them get slayed.

[Ayuhra]

Dragons are nearly immortal and never forget. Slaying Nidhogg would probably have made things worse in her eyes, just more carnage to an endlessly destructive cycle.

She didn't want Ishgard destroyed though. Remember that she was horrified at the fact that the dragons who followed her attack around the Steps of Faith were killing innocents including children.

Peace for both parties is what she wanted but she sympathized most with the dragons because of her innate ability to understand them. She, like Saint Shiva, is a child of two worlds.

It's also worth noting that when we go to confront Nidhogg Ysayle is in a very, very fragile emotional state having just learned everything the she believed about herself and Shiva was a lie.

[Anonymoose]

At the time, Estinien is essentially suggesting that they do the exact opposite of what she believes is her reason for being.

Ysayle's point of view about many things was skewed by the fact that she was once a lonely, broken child starving in the snow. All she wanted was purpose and to not be alone. When she was blessed with the Echo, she found purpose - she felt was chosen to end the Dragonsong War, and because of the glimpses of truth she saw in Hraesvelgr's soul, she thought it could be accomplished simply by spreading truth, uniting the heretics, and killing the Archbishop to dismantle the systematic falsehoods upon which Ishgard stood. When she believed she summoned Shiva's soul, she believed she had an eternal companion, that Shiva chose her because of the righteousness of her cause.

That plan was her raison d'etre - anything that went against it went against everything she believed. When she opened the path to the Pillars for the dragons, they were supposed to strike at the heart of the city and, instead, they just unleashed their rage on everyone they saw - mostly innocents in Foundations. Then Hraesvelgr tells her Shiva is a phantom of her own creation and that she truly is alone. And now they want her to just accept that her divine purpose is a lie, Nidhogg will never accept peace, and we should just slay another Celestial Dragon and declare Ishgard the victor.

It takes a while for her to process that the Warrior of Light's path is the closest thing she'll ever have to achieving her goals, and that she has to walk it with Hydaelyn's true champion and a dragonslayer instead of her brothers and sisters in arms and a saint. Did you read the Tale from the Dragonsong War about her, by chance? Once she accepts all of these things, she allows the one crystal of light that was able to manifest for her as a gift from Hydaelyn to dissolve so she can become Shiva and buy time for the Warrior of Light to strike at the Archbishop, and when that gets her killed she spends her last moments living in Shiva's memories instead of her own.

It's all terribly sad. She's become one of my favorite characters in the game, really.

[MercuryD]

I still have hope for her, if only out of denial...

[myahele]

Shiva vcan can still summoned, but it wont be Ysayle. I kinda hope they go this route just to show us that Primals really are not the people they're modeled after

[FJerome]

Shiva vcan can still summoned, but it wont be Ysayle. I kinda hope they go this route just to show us that Primals really are not the people they're modeled after

The thing is Primal Shiva's already been clearly stated to not be the person she's modelled after, it's just that the person she's modelled after isn't Ysayle, it's Saint Shiva.

The other thing is all the other Primals we've seen were separate entities to their summoners but Ysayle just doesn't summon Shiva, she takes the powers onto herself and becomes the Primal, remaining in full control throughout, and I think that difference is going to end up being important? She's a lot more mixed-up in there than the real Bahamut was with the Primal version.


(I'm also putting down 10 gil to bet that Ramuh had a similar origin and that's why he remains someone we can have a rational conversation with.)

[Ayuhra]

The thing is Primal Shiva's already been clearly stated to not be the person she's modelled after, it's just that the person she's modelled after isn't Ysayle, it's Saint Shiva.

The other thing is all the other Primals we've seen were separate entities to their summoners but Ysayle just doesn't summon Shiva, she takes the powers onto herself and becomes the Primal, remaining in full control throughout, and I think that difference is going to end up being important? She's a lot more mixed-up in there than the real Bahamut was with the Primal version.


(I'm also putting down 10 gil to bet that Ramuh had a similar origin and that's why he remains someone we can have a rational conversation with.)

Thordan and the Heaven's Ward can take on Primal form through their own bodies too, as the Knights of the Round.

I do agree that the fact she could become a Primal could lead into something, especially since she has Echo too but she is not the only person who can do it.

[myahele]

The thing is Primal Shiva's already been clearly stated to not be the person she's modelled after, it's just that the person she's modelled after isn't Ysayle, it's Saint Shiva.

The other thing is all the other Primals we've seen were separate entities to their summoners but Ysayle just doesn't summon Shiva, she takes the powers onto herself and becomes the Primal, remaining in full control throughout, and I think that difference is going to end up being important? She's a lot more mixed-up in there than the real Bahamut was with the Primal version.


(I'm also putting down 10 gil to bet that Ramuh had a similar origin and that's why he remains someone we can have a rational conversation with.)

I'm mostly talking about Shiva the Primal being summoned by heretics; not Ysayle-controlled Shiva Primal if that makes sense.

[FJerome]

Thordan and the Heaven's Ward can take on Primal form through their own bodies too, as the Knights of the Round.

Actually I've been wondering if they could be re-summoned as well and what we'd get if someone did. About the only thing stopping it right now would the limited knowledge that those Primals exist, since we slaughtered the entire half of the Temple Knights who were on their side and may have known of their plans.

. . . I'm not just saying this because I feel like I didn't get to beat the Heavens' Ward up hard enough the first time, honest.

[Daralii]

Actually I've been wondering if they could be re-summoned as well and what we'd get if someone did. About the only thing stopping it right now would the limited knowledge that those Primals exist, since we slaughtered the entire half of the Temple Knights who were on their side and may have known of their plans.

. . . I'm not just saying this because I feel like I didn't get to beat the Heavens' Ward up hard enough the first time, honest.

My guess would be a primal that thinks they're the individual after transforming.

Boy, could be sad.