Final Fantasy 14 is starting to lose appeal because...

[Tenku]

You know, I've barely played FFXIV in the past month because of the crap they did to DoL and DoH, but I was actually fine with pretty much everything else in the game. SE won't have any complaints from me if they go back to designing DoH and DoL content for players that aim to be self-sufficient instead of designing DoH and DoL for players that want everyone else to be driven off so they can jack up prices on the MB.



I also want to point out a severe problem with your logic: if you're happy getting the same result from doing the same thing over and over again, that's not really insane.

What? How are you happy getting the same result when you are expecting different results? Come on man. Learn to read the entire sentence as a whole and not just fragments.

[Kaurie]

What? How are you happy getting the same result when you are expecting different results? Come on man. Learn to read the entire sentence as a whole and not just fragments.

True, that is the definition of insane as defined by Albert Einstein. However, he was mostly referring to controlled experiments (at least I hope). Millions of things happen every day with different outcomes over the last time they happened.

In order for cause A to always output effect B, every other variable has to remain controlled. In the real world, this rarely happens.

[Tenku]

True, that is the definition of insane as defined by Albert Einstein. However, he was mostly referring to controlled experiments (at least I hope). Millions of things happen every day with different outcomes over the last time they happened.

In order for cause A to always output effect B, every other variable has to remain controlled. In the real world, this rarely happens.

Yeah, but why take what I said and put it into a completely different context? I am literally saying that it is insane of us to do the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results. The results I'm referring to is hoping that SE will release content that is not rehashed from old content such as capping tomestones every week.

[Sailysium]

The real problem is everyone has completed all the content 3.0 had to offer and are doing other things until waiting for 3.1 to drops. These post start showing up just before a new patch drops. Oh and FFXI wasn't any better, just took a lot longer to grind out all the things we do now.

This pretty much. Just take a break and come back in 3.1 if the game is getting stale from the monotony. Once the new content comes out for the added story, new 24 man raid, new primal fight, gold saucer log and event additions, beast tribe quests, open world airship content, and eventually the new relic grinds come out there should be more lively stuff to do again like most other patches.

[Sailysium]

Also...

I will say though that i'd like to see life being brought back to some of the content no one does anymore, i.e. CT, sightseeing, GS. Hopefully the additions to Gold Saucer like a new challenge log will help motivate that place again as another thing players want to actually do to break monotony. A lot of that stuff seems like wasted content with no longevity if no one is playing those mini games anymore and forget them over the progression chores ppl only ever think about at this point in time. I personally don't see enough triple triad going as there potentially could be if TT could be played in the HW areas and even in instances while ppl wait for DCs, 5 minute CDs, misc preps to motivate players to continue collecting cards, similar to how the new minion minigame would imply encouraging players to do old content for more minions.

[KingOfAbyss]

This pretty much. Just take a break and come back in 3.1 if the game is getting stale from the monotony. Once the new content comes out for the added story, new 24 man raid, new primal fight, gold saucer log and event additions, beast tribe quests, open world airship content, and eventually the new relic grinds come out there should be more lively stuff to do again like most other patches.

But that's what we are saying: New 24-man raid, we have it already. Beast tribe Quests, they'll be a refresh of air because things are getting stale for a lot os us, but.. we had beast tribes already. new relic grind: we had one relic grind already.. >.<

This is what lots of people are complaining with.

For sure we'll try all of the new contents, I for one will be very happy with it. 2 'new' dungeons will make those who are capping tomes, a refresh as well (let's hope)

But hey, this is how this game is setup so far. to change everything, we would have to name it FFXIV:ARR-4.0-remasterized

Only a few days before TGS, excited to take my Eyeball floating mount <-- sound better than Ahriman ^^ into the high skies!

[Kyri]

Really, the problem isn't that FFXIV needs "more" content. It needs "new" content. And by new, I don't mean another cookie-cutter dungeon or raid.

What is 3.1 going to bring? A new set of Expert dungeons and re-shuffle the old dungeons into new categories? Perhaps a new raid that is going to be exactly like Labyrinth? I mean.. maybe the 24-man content will be new and interesting, but it won't last long.

I'm going to second everyone that brings FFXI to the table in this discussion. You know, another poster remembers the time they sneaked through Ifrit's Cauldron for their DRG AF. I remember being in an XP group in Cape Terrigan and hitting 60 RDM and finally being able to put on the "pimp hat". And that pimp hat was never rendered irrelevant for as long as I played FFXI. It was always incorporated into various gear swaps depending on whatever was being cast at the time.

I remember having a weekly schedule that wasn't always so.. redundant. In FFXIV, it's pretty much log on, do a Roulette, check some ventures, and then log off and wait for tomorrow. In FFXI, it was Dynamis on one day, then Limbus on another, then Einherjar and off to Sea or Sky farming, back to Dynamis and Limbus, then perhaps a free day to do whatever you wanted (like Nyzul Isle, Salvage, Assault missions, ZNMs, VWNMs, etc). And the array of things made it more dynamic. Dynamis wasn't just Dynamis, with one zone that you ran two times a week. One day you were in Windy, then another in Sandy, then maybe Xarcabard or Beaucedine.. or you went into the CoP zones like Valkurm or Tavnazia. Same thing for Limbus. You had Temenos and Apollyon, with multiple variants thereof, all leading to a fight with Proto-Ultima or Omega. And all of this isn't even considering if you were chasing HNMs like Fafhogg, Tiamat, Aspidochelone, KB, Khimaira, Cerberus, etc.

Remember skilling up weapons and then having to break latent on Trial weapons in order to earn the WSNM weapon skills? That was a grind that you did to earn something that was forever.

What made XI last as long as it did? Variety. The ability to do activities that earned rewards that actually remained relevant. How long did it take FFXI to make Relics "irrelevant"? A damn long time. And they were hard to get, requiring lots of time, dedication, funding, and assistance from friends. But the moment you finally got one... you were PROUD of it. Look at relics in FFXIV. Know anyone that still uses them? Probably not. Perhaps as a glamour. Yep.. that's about it.

How about FFXI's ability to have jobs developed to fulfill a certain role in a party, and to have "outside the box" players take those jobs and find a way to make them work in an entirely different role that developers never even considered? Remember DNC or RDM tanks? How about solo BLMs? Can't do that here. Remember SMNs having to go and fight the Avatars in order to earn the right to summon them, and then being able to actually CHOOSE from an array of support during a battle by summoning and dismissing and re-summoning? What do SMNs have here? Ifrit, or Garuda. That's pretty much it. No Leviathan, no Ramuh. No Fenrir. Hell, Fenrir isn't even an Avatar/Primal in this game. He's been demoted. Developers don't even see a need to add more Primal-Egi's.

I even remember when I first started playing FFXI having a "MapQuest" day where I just spent time hunting for maps to zones. Anyone else here do the pilgrimage to get the Crawler's Nest map? FFXI players even had to earn the damn maps for the zones!

FFXIV's problems lie in cookie-cutter builds due to vertical progression and short-lived rewards, and redundancy in the daily choice of activities. It's not that there "isn't enough to do". It's that what there is to do is starting to get stale and uninteresting, because it's always just more of the same old tired thing.

That's what needs to change.

[Rakeesh]

I remember having a weekly schedule that wasn't always so.. redundant. In FFXIV, it's pretty much log on, do a Roulette, check some ventures, and then log off and wait for tomorrow. In FFXI, it was Dynamis on one day, then Limbus on another, then Einherjar and off to Sea or Sky farming, back to Dynamis and Limbus, then perhaps a free day to do whatever you wanted (like Nyzul Isle, Salvage, Assault missions, ZNMs, VWNMs, etc). And the array of things made it more dynamic. Dynamis wasn't just Dynamis, with one zone that you ran two times a week. One day you were in Windy, then another in Sandy, then maybe Xarcabard or Beaucedine.. or you went into the CoP zones like Valkurm or Tavnazia. Same thing for Limbus. You had Temenos and Apollyon, with multiple variants thereof, all leading to a fight with Proto-Ultima or Omega. And all of this isn't even considering if you were chasing HNMs like Fafhogg, Tiamat, Aspidochelone, KB, Khimaira, Cerberus,etc

And do you also remember if all that content was available on release of the first expansion or was that added during the course of it's lifetime? Same with "or you went into the CoP zones" which was from a seperate expansion than the first one?

Nostalgia glasses are fine and all but try to keep the content comparisons realistic. You can't compare the content of several expansions to the the first expansion of an MMO with no content patches released yet. That's just plain unfair.

FFXIV's problems lie in cookie-cutter builds due to vertical progression and short-lived rewards, and redundancy in the daily choice of activities. It's not that there "isn't enough to do". It's that what there is to do is starting to get stale and uninteresting, because it's always just more of the same old tired thing.

That's what needs to change.

I think it's pretty fun actually. From the descriptions of FFXI of farming months for a single piece of equipment (even if it lasts me god knows how long) that sounds boring as hell. If I want to play an RPG with others with such slow progression I'd find a Pathfinder P&P RPG group and play with them weekly.

It also sounds horrible for new players. If it takes them months to get gear to join the endgame you are expecting a lot of patience from them. And the problem gets worse the further the game progresses. In a system like FF14 the ability to catch up and join endgame is much more convenient, since every expansion is a clean slate.

There's no need for me to have raided the Coils for me to join in on Alexander for example. Which kinda sounds like it would have been the case in a system like FF11.

[Kyri]

And do you also remember if all that content was available on release of the first expansion or was that added during the course of it's lifetime? Same with "or you went into the CoP zones" which was from a seperate expansion than the first one?

Nostalgia glasses are fine and all but try to keep the content comparisons realistic. You can't compare the content of several expansions to the the first expansion of an MMO with no content patches released yet. That's just plain unfair.

My comparison is completely fair. FFXIV:ARR was launched on August 27th, 2013. That is two years ago, also evidenced by the two-year anniversary "The Rising" event. FFXI launched on May 16th, 2002. By 2004, Rise of the Zilart and Chains of Promathia were already released. How am I being unfair? They have had equivalent lifetimes in making these comparisons. I suppose I could discount activities after CoP as being invalidated by lifecycle, but even then you still had Dynamis, Limbus, Sky, Sea, Zilart HNMs, etc.

It's also quite unfair of you to state that FFXIV has had absolutely no content patches. There have been TONS of content patches. Adding Leviathan was it's own content patch. Same for Ramuh. Labyrinth of the Ancients. Syrcus Tower. World of Darkness. Second Coil. Final Coil. Before the Fall. In all of these patches, old content is rendered obsolete and only the newer content matters anymore. There is no replay value to ANYTHING in this game. This is a statement that cannot be said of FFXI.

[Rakeesh]

My comparison is completely fair. FFXIV:ARR was launched on August 27th, 2013. That is two years ago, also evidenced by the two-year anniversary "The Rising" event. FFXI launched on May 16th, 2002. By 2004, Rise of the Zilart and Chains of Promathia were already released. How am I being unfair? They have had equivalent lifetimes in making these comparisons. I suppose I could discount activities after CoP as being invalidated by lifecycle, but even then you still had Dynamis, Limbus, Sky, Sea, Zilart HNMs, etc.

Both of those expansion packs were commercially available. So inside of two years you had the price of base game + subscription+expansion 1+ expansion 2. In Japan at least.

Now on ARR you had base game + subscription for two years. And if I remember correctly when FF14 ARR came out it wasn't even a full price title like other MMOs. It was cheaper than an expansion of WoW.

So you have the trade-off of having paid more money for more content.

It's also quite unfair of you to state that FFXIV has had absolutely no content patches. There have been TONS of content patches. Adding Leviathan was it's own content patch. Same for Ramuh. Labyrinth of the Ancients. Syrcus Tower. World of Darkness. Second Coil. Final Coil. Before the Fall. In all of these patches, old content is rendered obsolete and only the newer content matters anymore. There is no replay value to ANYTHING in this game. This is a statement that cannot be said of FFXI.

Pay attention. I said first expansion with no content patches out yet. Heavensward is Heavensward and ARR is ARR. The problem is, you don't like the sort of game FF14 is and want it to be like FF11. On the other hand, I like the kind of game FF14 is and don't like what I'm reading about FF11. I don't mind old content becoming obsolete over time.

Do I think FF14 is perfect? Nope. Not at all. Would have been nice if there was a third or fourth dungeon in the Expert Roulette. Is it a deal breaker for me? Nope.

If they keep the patch release schedule for Heavensward close to the one they had in ARR I'm a happy camper. New content every 3 to 4 months is fine with me.

I meah... hell, compared to World of Warcraft the old content in FF14 is way more relevant to current content. At least you have the option to run roulettes with the old dungeons to farm at least some points. In WoW. It's dungeons from the current expansion or nothing, you don't even get the option anymore to queue for them.