What does Heavensward actually bring to the table as an expansion?

[Mikhaill]

That's because that is *not* the point, at all. But, if you're bored, playing something else for a while would seem to be a logical suggestion. If you have more time to play than I do, thats great, go enjoy yourself, but likeI said, if you are bored, play something else a while. Coming to the general forum and demanding a disproportionate development effort be made to satisfy raiders deserves a respone from non raiders wondeting why even more should devoted to sections of the game that only a small fraction ofpeople willsee.

I hate to be that guy, and I rarely point out peoples LS, but you don't have a 60
and know nothing about what's wrong with end-game right now. Spoilers! It's the same crap you dealt with in 2.0.
I was told "End-game is where it begins!" Yeah the ride up to it was fun, actually getting there isn't.
No one dislikes the game here, we're just upset that we're stuck in the same limbo as 2.0.
But I can see, we've all been saying the same things to you and you go right back and picking and pointing
out posts. Of course you won't talk about end-game, you aren't even there. Why are you even talking to us if that's what this topic's about?

[Kosmos992k]

I hate to be that guy, and I rarely point out peoples LS, but you don't have a 60
and know nothing about what's wrong with end-game right now.

Then don't be that guy.

I've played end game content before in other games and this one. The truth is, it's not enjoyable to me, its stressfuly and full of people with pissy attitudes. I've lost count of the friends I have seen chewed up and spat out by the end-game in this game. If you enjoy running and rerunning the same subset of content to obtain the best gear, go for it. But don't expect sympathy after you beat it and get bored.

I have no problem with there being good, long lasting end-game content, I've previoussly said that I think Savage should have been more different from normal (same story content as normal though). I get that many raiders feel that there is not enough content worthy of their skills. Guess what, many other players consider that ARR locked too much content behind stupidly difficult (or rather, pointlessly punishing) content that later had to be nerfed - consequently pissing off raiders. I'll not go through the entire argument over putting story behind such gates, except to say it's an annoying way to do things and annoys far more players than it pleases.

What gets on my nerves though is topic like this where poster after poster whines and complains that the game as a whole is no good because there is insufficient raiding/end game content for their liking. The game as a whole has tons of content for players of all levels, but if you restrict your view to content suited to specific groups such as raiders or top tier crafters, there is less to see.

Of course there is, because SE knows from their player data that small minorities of players engage such content. So they make a little bit for each subset, and a lot for the majority. If more people played end game, there would be more end-game. But as long as end-game is really only accessible to those who spend most of their play time farming tokens or gear to gear up, or running the raids with their statics, the difficulty of forming or joining a static, and the discipline of gear farming will prevent many very capable, skilled, players from joining in. I see the current end-game structure as a positive thing in the longterm because it gives many more players a chance to experience the end-game(albeit a 'lite' version). Without engaging more players in the end-game, future development effort wouLd be harder to justify.

Had Alex Savage been sufficiently different in terms of battle/boss content such that it wasn't simply a carbon copy of Alex normal, I suspect raiders woukd be happier with it. Were there a bonus fight at the end, not included in normal, I'd bet people would be happier still. I'm not arguing against changes to improve matters, but I do argue against the idea that much more dev time is needed for end-game exclusive content, because that would take away from the rest of the game and penalize everyone. I agree that with improvements end-game would be better, but it's not an all or nothing thing.

Finally, I can't stand the whining about having nothing to do except logging in, capping tomes, running a raid that uson farm and logging out. I can't stand it because it's litterally untrue. There is plenty to do, but in truth this having nothing to do us a personal situation created by the player restricting their selection of things to do. This kind of whining also creates a false impression that the game lacks content, when in fact it does not, though it has limited end-game content.

When I replied To the OP it seemed that the discussion was broader than end-game, the title of the thread certainly is. The topic has drifted to a far more end-game centric discussion than it was at the outset. Many people have replied to me in that context, failing to realize, or care, that I am replying to the broader discussion. It's pointless of me to reply further in this topic, because minds are closed and opinions set in stone, so I won't reply further.

In conclusion, this discussion could have had a far more constructive course, but as long as people adopt a position that is inflexible and summed up by the thought that any concession is equivalent to capitulation to the opposing view, nothing will be gained.