Emergent gameplay design(Food for thought)

[Sandpark]

I stun aoe's in dungeons all the time, most people do.

None of your examples are emergent gameplay, I think you should read your own links to get a better idea of what it actually means.

Which would only create massive bloat to our available skills without changing gameplay much at all. It would be a hassle to swap out skills for every single fight.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergent_gameplay

I said stun isn't used on harder things because it gets resisted. Or do people choose not to so everyone can dodge things? The very idea of emergence is the ability to do something to prevent that in a moment.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Virus
It's an enfeeblement with attributes down which weakens everything a mob does. Why wouldn't you keep it on at all times?

You probably have the stun skill on your hotbar most times. Do you swap it in and out of hotbar often?

[Sandpark]

Eventually people will figure out all of the particular of a fight and sit on the cooldowns for the abilities that prevent said attacks from going off and use them whenever said ability crops up. This means for some groups the fight could go spectacularly easy depending on what the boss decided to use and for others could be a nightmare. As there is no true AI you cannot possibly program infinite scenarios, just more random attacks/abilities to fire off.

Currently since the only option is dodge for most difficult fights. The main measure of skill is dodge which the video above describes. It brings no cleverness to the foray only twitch reflex.

"This means for some groups the fight could go spectacularly easy depending on what the boss decided to use and for others could be a nightmare."
This is exactly what I am getting at.

[Nadirah]

If they made stun work more reliably on bosses it'd break the damn game balance.

[Tyrial]

If they made stun work more reliably on bosses it'd break the damn game balance.

Ifrit HM eruptions come to mind pre-stun resist buff.

[hobostew]

I like buzzwords.

[RiceisNice]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergent_gameplay

I said stun isn't used on harder things because it gets resisted. Or do people choose not to so everyone can dodge things? The very idea of emergence is the ability to do something to prevent that in a moment.

Stun/silences has it's uses. For most classes, the abiltity is oGCD so it can ve weaved. On the other hand, if you needed the stun for something, then you wouldn't use it for the damage part and instead be reactive on a cast time for an ability that requires it to be interrupted. The only exception to this is paladin who has their stun as a weaponskill (which actually works against time in the grand scheme of things in current content)

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Virus
It's an enfeeblement with attributes down which weakens everything a mob does. Why wouldn't you keep it on at all times?

You can't keep it on at all times because of antibody. If you decided to use virus when it comes off cooldown, or have the hilarious idea to use it non-traited on select bosses/fights, you've effectively shut the door on using it for the next minute or so (where most tank busters or unavoidable damage happens on set intervals)

You probably have the stun skill on your hotbar most times. Do you swap it in and out of hotbar often?

As mentioned before, most jobs have their stun skill as an oGCD which works as free damage, so they keep it on anyway. If they take away the damage aspect and it's only good for a stun, then yes, I'd probably take it off the bar if I was crunching for room (I'm not but its pretty damn close), and that's what you want to avoid with button bloating.

Currently since the only option is dodge for most difficult fights. The main measure of skill is dodge which the video above describes. It brings no cleverness to the foray only twitch reflex.

"This means for some groups the fight could go spectacularly easy depending on what the boss decided to use and for others could be a nightmare."
This is exactly what I am getting at.

Honestly, that sounds pretty damn stupid from a raiding standpoint. You can already get variables in regards to where incidental AoEs get placed. Using titan EX as an example, his landslide covers a 5-way AoE, but the center is randomized on a targetted player. You can randomize that, but you don't want to randomize his abilties which have a secondary effect, or how abilties work together. Him doing landslide at a particular time after Boulder Bombs is an utter nightmare, and can get you kileld if it's in a terrible placement (which at times won't be helped if those abilties are used at random). Or tank is fucked upside the head if he decides to table flip twice in succession. And as much as I hate the fight, T8 savage is another example, no two attempts are ever the same because of the randomized tower placements on top allagan fields and landmine placements, to the point that it drives me nuts because of how randomized it is that you'd need contingency plans on top of contingency plans for your contingency plans.

[Sandpark]

@RiceIsNice
But why is antibody even in effect? You don't get resistance to something when a boss does it to you over and over. There is no hard solo content inside dungeons, so it would not be broken to remove antibody.

So you would take a stun(almost unresistable) only skill off your hotbar to be replaced with a damage only skill?
Ok you do more damage taking it off, but the enemy gets to spam AoE 5-20 times more a fight while you're in DPS frenzy.

Control of Titans AoE would be more manageable if certain bits of it could be silenced, stunned, slowed, or barspelled.

I motion to remove the GCD, add more emergent gameplay, with some ideas in the link in my OP.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3261005

[Wobi]

But why is antibody even in effect? You don't get resistance to something when a boss does it to you over and over. There is no hard solo content inside dungeons, so it would not be broken to remove antibody.

It didn't use to be but all of the DoM classes can equip Virus so you could basically keep it up full time, as such they added the Antibody effect to prevent this.

I'm not sure why you want the devs to spend twice as much time coding a fight for minimal gains, this will either frustrate the hell out of people and appease the masochistic players who love being screwed over by RNG in a battle. At either rate people will move on once the next thing comes out, this really comes down to a cost/benefit analysis and I'm not seeing the upside for the cost.

It would be a far better use of their time to spend more time on horizontal progression and different types of content that produce similar awards to the current endgame. I'd love to see them pull over a few of the better concepts from FFXI. 8 man instances but without the circle arena would be awesome, Limbus was probably my favorite endgame in FFXI because you could always figure out a new way to clear it (though some were admittedly much better than others).

[RiceisNice]

But why is antibody even in effect? You don't get resistance to something when a boss does it to you over and over. There is no hard solo content inside dungeons, so it would not be broken to remove antibody.

Again, this is coming from a raiding environment. Virus can be used by BLMs, SMN, SCH and WHM. Antibody is in effect because they don't want you stacking something as powerful as 15% reduction output and maintain full uptime on it. It's supposed to be used as a reactive tool for tank busters or otherwise unavoidable raid damage.[/QUOTE]

So you would take a stun(almost unresistable) only skill off your hotbar to be replaced with a damage only skill?
Ok you do more damage taking it off, but the enemy gets to spam AoE 5-20 times more a fight while you're in DPS frenzy.

What? I'm saying the skill functions both as a stun and oGCD damage, to be used as either or depending on what you need from it. If you had a skill that does only stun, then as a skill that only does damage, it causes button bloating because you still have the stun skill that's only used in key instances, while athte same time oyu'd still have the oGCD damage skill taking up another slot for no reason other than just because.

Control of Titans AoE would be more manageable if certain bits of it could be silenced, stunned, slowed, or barspelled.

Which now favors certain group compositions because not all classes have access to such skills, and something like this would go beyond dps checks (which is a reason why paladin currently fails at alexander savage). Not to mention it still comes back to the same problem; what can and cant be interrupted? What if two skills that can't be interrupted come in tantum with each other?

I motion to remove the GCD, add more emergent gameplay, with some ideas in the link in my OP.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post3261005

You haven't come up with any good reasoning for GCD to be removed other than making for a dynamic gameplay. The game's latency issue here is worse than that of most MMOs I've seen, so they're practically making it work with what we can. Resource mangement does not come into play for BLM (or really, the casters in general because their cast times are longer than the GCD we have now, so removing it literally does nothing for them), while for melee, it'd break the game toward having an astrologian and ninja to keep their TP up to maximize damage. If TP is the only constraint in damage, the meta heavily shifts toward classes who can provide TP or has the best time managing it.

[Almalexia]

I understand where OP is coming from, but the mechanical expression of every job is unlikely to change. Everything is tuned in a way to preserve balance--or attempt to preserve balance--among roles. True emergent play would necessarily throw balance out the window, or subject us to an endless barrage of "fixes" in a vain attempt to strike a balance.

While all our cookies may be cut from the same dough, this doesn't mean there is no room for creativity:

In FF14, emergent gameplay is mostly restricted to circumventing or making certain mechanics easier: the Twintania Trench, single tank strat for Nael, soaking double Prey on Ravana Ex with a beefed-up Adlo, or the recent stuff Lucrezia did during their AS4 clear.

These are only a few examples - FFXIV is quite rich with creative solutions to game challenges that don't necessarily depend on job abilities. I would say almost every dungeon boss has some "trick" that only reveals itself through manipulation of their gimmick or environment.

The closest we could come to OP's version of emergent gameplay would be PvP.