Savage Alexander and the Paladin Exodus

[KingOfAbyss]

They should have just made Titan: Ultimate Extremely Hard Mode if they wanted to give us a reallllll challenge. LANDSLIDES ALL AROUND!

More like LAG fest all around!

[Souljacker]

I guess that's why we've seen so many Paladins clear A4S.

The playerbase collectively has to decide what they want:
No homogenization
Bring the player, not the class


Right now it's bring the class. Level the job that has the critical skill\mitigation\dps we want or you are getting benched. However, if they change that so that all tanks are viable in all content and you level the job that has the playstyle you like, people get upset that things are just too homogenized.

There's a lot of design choices that could be changed, but they are in a spot right now that I wouldn't want to be in as a designer. The playerbase is going to crucify them no matter what they do, especially since paladin enjoyed the top of the pile in so much content in vanilla and the game has reached a point where DPS is king over all else.

[LineageRazor]

Folks are only just now starting to beat AS4. Right now, beating that requires bleeding-edge performance by all participants; anything that can squeeze out another drop of damage is used. We've seen stuff like that before, with book-thumping SCHs and SMNs auto-attacking for the few scraps of additional damage they contribute. Now that it's been beaten, though, time, practice, and additional gear drops will ease these strict requirements, and jobs (PLD in this case) that were out of favor will start returning to the fight.

Alexander was DRK's chance to shine, which makes sense since this expansion added DRK to the mix. Now, if all future envelope-pushing content in the future continues to favor DRK over PLD, we might have an issue, but I think it's fair to have an event or two where PLD is not the darling.

As long as there's variance of any kind between jobs, you're going to see this kind of favoritism emerge whenever any content pushes the envelope of what players can accomplish. The only way to ensure that all jobs are equally powerful in all situations is to make them all exactly the same.

[Kyne_Lyons]

This is exactly the problem I posed in the OP. Want to be successful in end-game content later than everyone else? Play Paladin.

[Brian_]

It's not an issue with homogenization. It's not homogenized for all the tanks to deal roughly the same DPS because they deal that damage in different ways. It's only homogenized to the people that view a job as nothing more than numbers.

And, DRK has their own issues. Quite frankly, NO ONE should be happy to see them masked over in a way that shafts another class and the actual human beings who like playing that class.

It's not about PLDs, DRKs, or WARs. Too often are those terms used to dehumanize the issue. It's about actual real people who are just trying to enjoy the content. It's about real people who are being forced away from something they like in a game they play for enjoyment. That is the issue.

[Arashmin]

Alexander was DRK's chance to shine, which makes sense since this expansion added DRK to the mix. Now, if all future envelope-pushing content in the future continues to favor DRK over PLD, we might have an issue, but I think it's fair to have an event or two where PLD is not the darling.

Except if the trend is kept up, they won't be ever until late in the party. That's not a good model.

As long as there's variance of any kind between jobs, you're going to see this kind of favoritism emerge whenever any content pushes the envelope of what players can accomplish. The only way to ensure that all jobs are equally powerful in all situations is to make them all exactly the same.

Yeeep, that's definitely not something a game designer would say.

[LineageRazor]

This is exactly the problem I posed in the OP. Want to be successful in THIS end-game content later than everyone else? Play Paladin.

Edited for accuracy. As for Arashmin's comment, WHAT trend? Near as I can tell, this is the very first time PLD hasn't been the absolute darling tank in endgame. A single anomaly in PLD's unbroken record. Then along comes Savage 4 with all its crazy magic damage and punishing DPS checks, and suddenly PLDs are moaning about the end of days.

PLD will be in third place for, what, a half a year at most? Then the second phase of Alexander pops up, Savage 4 becomes yesterday's news, and Paladins take the fore again because Floor 8 is less a DPS check and more a physical endurance check; it is simply too punishing to the tank to leave the main tanking role in the hands of a DRK or WAR. At least, until that, too, gets overgeared, and all the neglected DRKs (who have started moaning about the end of days due to their second-rate physical defenses) start to trickle back in.

There are three tanks. There are two tank slots. One tank will ALWAYS be left in the cold, even if the difference in numbers between them can be measured in two digits, because that's just how optimizers (the folks most likely to get World's First clears, and the folks that later folks mimic when they try for their own first clears) think - they DO view jobs as nothing more than numbers. As long as SE makes sure each new endgame addition "favors" each tank in turn, that's the best we can ask for.

[Kyne_Lyons]

I'd rather make small adjustments to one job rather than bank on the combat team to fundamentally change game design.

[Hayward]

I've said it before and I'll repeat it until the Aurochs come home: Assessing a job based on endgame content meant for i200 when most people are only now just reaching i190~i195 is a dodgy assessment at best and completely malicious at worst. If a group is relying on tank DPS to pull them through content, that content is being engaged MUCH too early.

[OPneedNerfs]

I've said it before and I'll repeat it until the Aurochs come home: Assessing a job based on endgame content meant for i200 when most people are only now just reaching i190~i195 is a dodgy assessment at best and completely malicious at worst. If a group is relying on tank DPS to pull them through content, that content is being engaged MUCH too early.

Yeah man, 2.0 WARs should've just waited till they were i90 before attempting BcoB instead of getting a buff right? Gear fixes everything right? It's not as if the better jobs aren't getting the same benefits from better gear right? Lol.