PvP Abilities and Action Bar Space

[Alahra]

What about using a gaming mouse, as I mentioned before? Those could help.

I can't handle keyboard+mouse play in general for various reasons, so I've never felt like investing in a solid gaming mouse to try it.

[Februs]

That's what I hear. I have a FC-mate on PS4 who PvPs frequently and he says it's not as much of an issue for him.

Not necessarily. I play on PS4. Right now, I have two designated PvP hotbars that have a mix of commonly used combos/dots mixed in with Job specific PvP actions. When I only had one class to play PvP on, it wasn't an issue, but now that I have several classes I can switch between, finding the real estate for all their individual PvP moves is troublesome, and I'm constantly rearranging my PvP hotbars depending on which Job I plan to que as.

[Februs]

Personally, I think the main problem stems all the way back to our character settings .Each Job we have gets it's own gear set under "character," and has it's own specific hotbars (at least for Ps4.) The problem is that, if you chose to also have a pvp gear set for a job that already has a PvE gear set, those two sets will be automatically slotted to share hotbars. Changing hotbar locations on one also changes the other by default. Ie) if I want to make a PvP action that I commonly use readily available on hotbar 1 in place of a PvE action that I don't use very often, making that switch will also change my PvE hotbar even though I've created a PvP specific gear set in the "character" menu. That can cause more problems than it fixes, so most controller users end up making PvP specific hotbars.

The problem here is that 1) those hotbars are not comfortable to switch to (because we don't use them often) and 2) take up space in our limited space of 8 hotbars. If you only have one PvP character, It's not that bad, but, once you start to get several jobs you like to switch between you start to run out of Hotbar real estate really quickly.

I think one serious fix that they could implement is to have a tab in the "character" section that toggles between PvE and PvP. That way, you get more space for custom gear sets, and, more importantly, you get PvP specific hotbars that do not share action spaces with your PvE hotbars. This would save us controller people from running out of space in our limited 8 hotbar rotation, and we wouldn't have to worry about swapping out PvE skills or somehow screwing up our PvE rotations because we wanted to do a bit of PvP earlier in the day.

[Alahra]

I think one serious fix that they could implement is to have a tab in the "character" section that toggles between PvE and PvP. That way, you get more space for custom gear sets, and, more importantly, you get PvP specific hotbars that do not share action spaces with your PvE hotbars. This would save us controller people from running out of space in our limited 8 hotbar rotation, and we wouldn't have to worry about swapping out PvE skills or somehow screwing up our PvE rotations because we wanted to do a bit of PvP earlier in the day.

Something like this would be ideal, yes. In practice, things worked like this in WoW once they added dual specializations, since each class tended to use a particular spec in PvP and another one for PvE. Switching specializations swapped your hotbars to a fresh set that was saved separately.

[Februs]

Something like this would be ideal, yes. In practice, things worked like this in WoW once they added dual specializations, since each class tended to use a particular spec in PvP and another one for PvE. Switching specializations swapped your hotbars to a fresh set that was saved separately.

That would be fantastic. I don't know about the rest of you, or if I'm just PvP'ing totally wrong, but my PvP rotation (if you can call it that) is completely different than my PvE one, so it is a massive inconvenience to have to constantly work around my PvE hotbars to get a good balance while not F'ing up my hotbars for different content.

The only thing is, I hear talk from time to time about "memory restrictions" or some such, being the reason they don't make adjustments like this... though, when I see a computer hotabar compared to a Ps4 hotbar, I have a feeling it's BS and they either don't care or are too lazy.

[Stupiduglytaru]

That would be fantastic. I don't know about the rest of you, or if I'm just PvP'ing totally wrong, but my PvP rotation (if you can call it that) is completely different than my PvE one, so it is a massive inconvenience to have to constantly work around my PvE hotbars to get a good balance while not F'ing up my hotbars for different content.

The only thing is, I hear talk from time to time about "memory restrictions" or some such, being the reason they don't make adjustments like this... though, when I see a computer hotabar compared to a Ps4 hotbar, I have a feeling it's BS and they either don't care or are too lazy.

Aye you only focus on your maximum burst + valuable life savers, take for instance lv 50 fl. My ninja main hotbat included perfect dodge throwing dagger overhelm assassinate. Having these immediately available via the main hotbar really helps out.

[Alahra]

That would be fantastic. I don't know about the rest of you, or if I'm just PvP'ing totally wrong, but my PvP rotation (if you can call it that) is completely different than my PvE one, so it is a massive inconvenience to have to constantly work around my PvE hotbars to get a good balance while not F'ing up my hotbars for different content.

Ability focus in PvP is quite different, yes. Burst is much more important, so you can't always focus on attacks that require ramp-up time and the like (DoTs and the like), defensive cooldowns are more useful, and so on. Even without considering PvP abilities, priorities change a lot. It feels like wanting to both PvP and PvE on a particular class is just a mess, far worse than changing stat points on SCH/SMN was if you frequently played both of those.

It's also problematic for muscle memory, too--you don't want to necessarily adjust your main PvE rotation *too* much, or else you might find your wires getting crossed if you juggle the two types of content frequently. While I get why they went with separate abilities for PvP, modifying the existing ones in PvP environments probably would have worked much better in the long run.

I don't know why we needed Weapon Throw as a separate button when every melee except MNK already had a ranged attack--a PvP trait could have given it similar functionality (adjusting for the fact that it's a weaponskill and not an ability of course) and saved a button. Ditto for the TP restore of which I can't remember the name and Invigorate, and so on.

[Februs]

Ability focus in PvP is quite different, yes. Burst is much more important, so you can't always focus on attacks that require ramp-up time and the like (DoTs and the like), defensive cooldowns are more useful, and so on.

I actually found my PvP rotation changed a lot to deal with people moving around so damn much. Higher Burst Dmg just seemed to come out as a side effect of compensating for that.

Muscle memory is definitely a problem. I can't count how many times I've messed up my rotation in both PvP and PvE just because I moved something on my hotbar, even something as small as my LB. Tanks don't really use it, so I shafted it to my least used hotbar, but in PvP it's much more useful, so I had to move it somewhere more accessible... which caused an accidental discharge in a dungeon. So dumb. It made me very glad it had a cast time I could cancel.

I also agree there are a lot of PvP skills that are redundant, and even more so by the fact that the PvP skill chart is completely broken. It irritates me to no end that the job abilities for your current "off-jobs" are not visible when in a different job. I don't know if mine is glitched or something but I spend a lot of time flip flopping around between jobs just to rearrange my ability points whenever I want to make a switch. That gets really, really annoying after a while.

[Alahra]

I also agree there are a lot of PvP skills that are redundant, and even more so by the fact that the PvP skill chart is completely broken. It irritates me to no end that the job abilities for your current "off-jobs" are not visible when in a different job. I don't know if mine is glitched or something but I spend a lot of time flip flopping around between jobs just to rearrange my ability points whenever I want to make a switch. That gets really, really annoying after a while.

The ability points stuff is really annoying too, to be honest. If you decide to PvP on something different than usual or you zone into a match and there are no healers and you wish to switch, you have to go through and reassign everything manually, and that's just not really fun.

[Juen]

PvP hotbars arent really a issue for me personally. I use 3 sets of hotbars for my skills and keep a 4th one visible to keep skills that I swap between PvE and PvP content. Because pvp doesnt usually let you get positionals off, I usually remove all the ones that require positionals for my NIN such as AE and armor crusher.

I did wish SE would let you keep your arranged points when you swap between classes. I hate doing it whenever I swap between DRK and NIN.