Hair contest: petitioning

[Adire]

snip

No one has called the hairstyles scraps that I've seen. The only person to use the word at all was me, and it was not referring to the hairstyles if you had taken the time to read a little more carefully.

It was referring to the idea the poster before me had, saying we should just accept whatever SE does and that we're basically lucky to get anything, and saying we're ignored because we don't:

Threads like these are why we ignored most of the time and others get more attention.

Cause nobody can be happy on what they get. Instead lets light the torches and grab pitch forks and charge, I say let it be accept it.

Then maybe we would be accepted more with open arms instead of ignored.

As for 1.0 comment, the same concept applies. It's a different scale than the hairstyles, but the concept applies.

And I don't think it's entitled for paying customers to complain about things relevant to the product (the game) when we feel we have legitimate reason to. Again, the word is misused. We are being sold a service/product, the company's goal is to keep us buying into it, it's mutually beneficial for us to share our grievances, and it's definitely not "entitled".

As paying customers, we do not have to and should not have to be expected to sit back and be thankful for any and every little thing we get in addition to not being allowed to voice our grievances without being considered "entitled".

We have three options when we have a grievance:

1. Voice it and hope you will be heard.
2. Take your money elsewhere.
3. Not say anything even when you feel improvement is possible, and contribute to a lack of anything being done about it.

Personally, I feel this could have been done better, but will not leave the game over it. But since I feel it could have been done better, and I'm not the type to sit down and be quiet when I feel it could have been done better because I like the game and think it could be even better, and want to contribute my opinion on how it could be better rather than sit idle and go where the wind blows, that leaves option 1 for me. That is not an entitled attitude by any means. Criticism is integral to progress.

[Nestama]

As for 1.0 comment, the same concept applies. It's a different scale than the hairstyles, but the concept applies.

Ayup.

So I guess we should have just blindly accepted FFXIV 1.0, hm? I know, that and this are completely different, but criticism does help others to improve in future endeavours.

I'm just hoping that if SE were to do this kind of contest again, they split hairstyles into three categories for the two genders for people to vote for (short, medium and long) and then have people vote on one of the top three (one of each from short, medium and long). Maybe even be a little stricter on rules, by requiring artists to only use the templates they provide (as I mentioned in that same quote, I feel some people are voting by how nice the art looks, rather than the hairstyle alone).

[yuixjfa]

Strawman, ad hominem, unwarranted assumptions, appeal to motive, and wow, even a "starving children in Africa" relative privation fallacy with that 1.0 comparison.

Strawman:

This would be a petition stating the general upset at the lack of representation of what we, as a community, wanted in style choices.

It was his own words. If you are talking about my second paragraph, i specifically wrote "to those saying". Read.

Ad Hominem: I didn't attack him as a person, I attacked his actions; which directly relate to his own argument. It doesn't make sense to submit your own submission into the contest, but then not end up as a finalist, but then complain about how everyone elses designs dont suit what the "community" wants. Also, i just simply stated his design did not suit my taste either. I was rather harsh with it, yes.

Unwarranted Assumptions: What was being assumed? The final line of my post? Yes that was an assumption. But can you blame me? If his entry got in the finalist (and even won maybe) would he be posting this? Ask yourself that.

Appeal to Motive: Of course? Of course I question the entirety of this thread and the OPs motive of it. It doesnt make sense, and is very hypocritical.

Comparative: Yes, It was a rather big comparison to make. But the fact that this is being blown up to this extent, I felt like it was needed, just to remind people of the fact that it is just hairstyles, and we are lucky enough to have this contest in the first place. People just need to appreciate things more. And not once did I mention any starving kids in Africa. So just call it Relative Privation Fallacy if you must.

What did you do? Did you just throw out as much English terminology as you can to make yourself sound cool or something? The picture also isn't helping.

[Glasya]

A. The argument is that the finalists aren't sufficiently varied, which is to the detriment of community agency when collaborating to decide a design for inclusion to the game. You've exaggerated in saying a design submitted by the OP is unlikely to please everyone, when no one design is ever going to please the community at-large. It is not, and has never been about pleasing everyone and the limit of 2 winners is a testament to that fact; it's about giving everyone equal opportunity to submit or vote for the sort of designs they like. If the finalists are all similar, and you don't like any of the finalist designs, then you aren't being properly represented.

B. You referred to people complaining about finalist homogeneity as "entitled", with pejorative intonation. "Entitled" is the mating-call of the consumer sheep.

C & D. This has been refuted several times over. Just fuck off; even were it true you have no basis for proving it.


E. The fact the game failed doesn't matter now that it's printing money. With success the onus is now on SE to reorganise their priorities; do not diminish the import of delivering a quality service if you wish to continue doing business.

F. No, but since you're replying 4 hours late I'm guessing you had to reference definitions for them and have been fuming over how to dissect and respond to each one. Butthurt much?

The picture also isn't helping.

Just posting at the same level of quality as you, my friend.

[Gilraen]

Just posting at the same level of quality as you, my friend.

I don't know, I'm with... yuixjfa (?) with this. I said my peace with, "You can't please everyone all the time, so it's better not to try." This contest wasn't about trying to please everyone, it was about letting the community submit and choose an upcoming hairstyle with a prize for the player that made the winning hairstyle. But instead of congratulating the finalists for making it to the finalist stage, the original post decries them for not being 'what the community wants', nevermind that other players made the finalist styles and that they were picked from what had to be thousands of entries with an untold amount of similarity (not as unlikely as you might think). This is the hang up the 'naysayers' against the original post are having. The very apparent level of ingratitude at Square, even though they didn't even have to host this contest to begin with.

[Kyonika]

Maybe my opinion may be different from others, but... I'm fine that my entry didn't get picked: there are so many (both in the finalists and the 'lets post ours' thread) beautiful entries that I think are way better/talented than mine. So, I congratulate the finalists, and I thank all who looked at and "liked" my entry in the 'lets post ours' thread. Also, I have voted for the finalists that I like, and am looking forward to seeing the new hairstyles (whichever they may be) in game. And, I also hope SE makes more of these contests in the future.

Also, sorry OP, but I don't feel right signing your "petition."

---

What did you do? Did you just throw out as much English terminology as you can to make yourself sound cool or something? The picture also isn't helping.

そういうことじゃなくて。。。典型的なクソ「指示厨」のたわごと話だけじゃん。 心配ない。 (please forgive me for my very bad Japanese. lol) -- (nnn...right... tn b'cuz it is soo bad: "That's not really it... That's just typical fucking "telling-off-like-middle-schooler-esque" shit talk. Don't worry.")

Anyways, I think it's more like some kind of debate tool that white knights, SJWs, Fedora-wearing internet heroes, and malnourished 400lb foreveralone neckbeards use to dismantle an argument they don't personally agree with. It's like, "Since I can't win with a well-constructed argument, I'll win by just throwing some fallacy terms at it to make it sound wrong/false, while simultaneously implying/making myself look like an authority on internet debates - even though I'm not qualified. Yay!...I'm such an internet tough guy!"

If that doesn't work, or is met with a counter, then it will usually devolve into a "...sheep," or "he mad" shit post, or a "stop liking what I don't like" whine. When these kind of posts appear, I just ignore them. They are irksome and tiresome. They're not qualified to speak against anything, and they're not saying anything either. They are simply shit posts. They're just trying to look important. I think the term "narcissist" comes to mind.

Also, this post...

Strawman, ad hominem, blah blah blah...

...is what irony looks like.

A real debater would not verbalize the fallacies. Instead s/he would simply identify them, and use that to construct a usable counter argument -- kinda like playing chess, and drawing the other party into a checkmate.

And... Admittedly, I looked it up - just to be sure it was okay to use the term, "internet hero," but the proof is in the pudding. lol

"Entitled" is the mating-call of the consumer sheep.

"Sheep" confirmed. Hahahaha. Too funny. That made my day. Thank you. lol


And, yes I know, the internet tough guys would call the above an "Ad Hominem" fallacy. But, it's just an opinion and view that I'm expressing, and I have every right to express it. :P Teehee


But really though, all joking aside, those shit posts really are irksome and tiresome.

And, that...*sigh* was the last fuck I was holding onto, and ...

Goodbye little "last fuck" birdie.

I'm done.

[Noxifer]

What makes me the most angry is that they are only doing two of each gender.. and I'm not even sure I'll wear one of them. I want the top FIVE not just two.. two isn't going to represent a broad range of people. :/

Nope, there are not "two of each gender" winning. It's "the two most-voted-on hairstyles", meaning ONE from each gender. With the five runner-ups from each gender category winning just the barding. (Two First Prizes and ten Runner-up Prizes, as listed in the Lodestone post.)

Let's say your entry got in the final selections and won. Are you saying that your hairstyle you entered was exactly what everyone in this community wanted? That is it perfect? No. No it fucking isnt. And yes, i saw your entry myself. And no, it wasn't the kind of hairstyle i would want to win. So that there is already ironic with the fact that it was something YOU entered in the competition. [...] From what it seems like, the only reason this thread is up, is to bitch about the fact your entry didnt make it.

Several of us who agree don't have a stake in "winning" or even making it to the finalists, because we either didn't enter the contest or weren't allowed to enter based on where we live.

And it's not really a matter of jealousy at all.

Let's say 100 female entries were sent in. There were 10 side-pony tails, 10 pigtails/two-tails, 10 pony-tails/one-tails, 10 short-and-spiky, 10 long-and-straight, 10 long-and-curly, 10 elaborate-updos, 10 no-bangs (of various varieties), 10 'masculine cuts' and 10 braid-based.

Would you be happier if they let the community vote on one from each 'style category', or three each from the first three categories and one from the fourth, ignoring all the other styles? Because to me (and several others), the latter is what it seems happened here. =/

[DoctorSecksy]

Glasya, while I appreciate your educated defense, would you mind refraining from using harsh statements, such as "fuck off"? I know things get heated, and repeating ourselves to those unwilling to listen is aggravating, but we can do our part to keep things civil.

Yuixjfa: If you are going to quote me, please don't misquote me and focus on only the part that seem to fit your argument. If you would please direct your attention to my opening statement, where I said I was making an appeal (or rather trying to garner interest) from those of likeminded status. This means that my audience for my opening post was directed AT those who agree with me. Quoting me they way you did not only makes it seem like I am saying everyone agrees with me (which I most certainly deliberated that I was NOT doing, further down the first post, for your future reference) but it makes it seem like you didn't bother to read my sentiment at all. You are seeing what you want to see and making huge assumptions. Yes, I entered the contest. No, I didn't win. Why does that matter? Can anyone actually tell me WHY this matters? I've asked this many times, because many people seem to think it does. And yet.... I can't seem to get a reason. Regardless, there are many people out there who did not enter the contest, for a multitude of reasons, who agree with the idea of the thread. Could be they didn't want to. Would you then argue that since they didn't submit, they don't have the right to be upset? Or maybe they couldn't enter for legal reasons. Is it their fault for living in an area that the contest didn't support, therefore they don't have the right to be upset? I am honestly curious.

And you know, I knew that my hairstyle wasn't "exactly what everyone in this community wanted" and that it wasn't perfect "No. No it fucking isn't." So glad you decided to bash my entry personally to further your argument that your moral high road is the better of high roads.

[Noxifer]

No, I didn't win. Why does that matter? Can anyone actually tell me WHY this matters? I've asked this many times, because many people seem to think it does. And yet.... I can't seem to get a reason.

Because people (in general) tend to assume jealousy as the base emotion whenever someone is unhappy with something that isn't theirs. "If I didn't win/make it/get it, no one else should either, and certainly not the ones who did."

Often this is the case, I'm not trying to argue that. But one shouldn't forget that it equally often isn't. Unfortunately, since the jealousy-fueled debates/arguments tend to get a lot more heated, they often get noticed more easily. And as soon as the person presenting the argument has any sort of 'stake' in the basis of the complaint, the easiest assumption to make is that it's jealousy-based.

[KasKatta]

...

It's amazing how much people can take something out of context and twist it to the way they want for the sake of starting an argument on the internet. NO ONE in this thread so far as openly discounted any finalist entry, nor have they said any did not deserve to be there. The argument and the reason this thread was started by the OP was to simply inquire if there was anyone else who felt the contest should have been done differently, mainly the voting process and the pool of finalists itself. And there's plenty who were not satisfied with the number of finalists, or how the finalist pool did not lend well to the diverse wants of the community. No one here even mentioned their own entry, especially the OP. And there's even more people who didn't enter that are questioning the contest as a whole as well. So, please, stop using the argument we're all "crying" because we didn't win. That's not the purpose of this thread at all.

And again, we are by no means complaining at the chance to have a contest like this one, merely that it was handled in the wrong way. The assumption that because we're voicing an opinion about the way things turned out means we somehow are ungrateful for the opportunity is complete bs. We also didn't hop in the thread and use foul language or openly bash someone's entry as you did, which is inappropriate even if you disagree with us.

The 1.0 comparison was also NOT used as a comparison to the contest, but a comparison to the need to sometimes step up and tell the company, in which you, the consumer, receive a product from, that the product needs work or could be better. Any company with even a remote sense of good business knows and would appreciate that kind of feedback, even moreso than a pat on the back with an A-okay sticker for a good job.

Again I reiterate, we are not saying the final entries themselves are not what the community wanted, but the final pool itself and the way they came about those selections was a poor interpretation of the diverse wants a good number of us have. There just should have been a better chance to showcase a greater number of entries to vote on. Plain and simple.