What Roles would you like for Samurai and Red Mage?

[Noxifer]

I've passed the point where I don't care whether Samurai is a Tank or a DPS, but I'd like to point out that when people say "Share armour with Dragoon" they're typically talking about lower levels, where there are four basic armour types. Tank Armour, DPS Armour, Caster/Healer Armour, and Dragoon/Lancer Armour. Not the Top level Combat gear where the Tanks all share, the Casters both share, the healers all share, the Ranged DPS both share, and the Melee DPS all get their own.

Nope, I'm talking about those higher level gear where tanks/casters/healers/rangedDPS have their shared gearsets, but melee DPS as of yet do not have anyone to share with =) I don't see anything wrong with that changing, and them getting other jobs to share gear with.

There's nothing wrong with DPS sharing gearsets. I only commented on why specifically must DRG share their gearset as the person mentioned "We need more mail wearing dps". And I simply asked...why? Why specifically DRG? Why not MNK? or Nin? If Samurai get added as a dps, they will most certainly be sharing a dps gearset with some existing job.

Gearset sharing does become a problem when you mix roles though. Such as having a dps wearing heavy fending armor where now they compete against tanks (Who already have to compete against each other) for gear.

I can't speak for the others making the SAM/DRG connection, but with me it's because my image of Samurai is a medium-heavy to heavy armour wearing kind of class/job. Which makes sense with Dragoon armour, since it wouldn't work to have Samurai share tank gear if it's not a tank job. But like I also said in the post you quoted: If Samurai is made with the lighter type of armour that it seems Yoshida envisioned it in, then it makes more sense to pair up SAM/MNK =D
(And like I said in my original post, if they make Red Mage a magic melee DPS, and have the base stat be Dex, it would make sense to let RDM/NIN share gear.)

[SendohJin]

Nope, I'm talking about those higher level gear where tanks/casters/healers/rangedDPS have their shared gearsets, but melee DPS as of yet do not have anyone to share with =) I don't see anything wrong with that changing, and them getting other jobs to share gear with.

you must have never seen the appearance of MNK and DRG gear from Binding Coil and Syrcus Tower. there was no reason why those sets couldn't have been shared because appearance and statwise they are basically the same. SE hasn't let either of those things dictate how they make gear, whether it's the same exact piece or not seems to be determined mostly by how much time they want people farming them.

[Noxifer]

you must have never seen the appearance of MNK and DRG gear from Binding Coil and Syrcus Tower. there was no reason why those sets couldn't have been shared because appearance and statwise they are basically the same. SE hasn't let either of those things dictate how they make gear, whether it's the same exact piece or not seems to be determined mostly by how much time they want people farming them.

The reason why they don't share gear is due to the numbers on them. Look at Def/Mdef numbers. While the Mdef is now equal (after the Devs realized the lower Mdef made DRG tank the floor more often than not with all the raid-wide magic damage), DRG gear has a higher Def number, since they're of the "medium heavy" category whereas MNK is of the "medium" category.
Allagan Cuirass of Striking vs. Allagan Cuirass of Maiming

The Guardian's Breastplate of Striking vs. The Guardian's Breastplate of Maiming

Appearance-wise, they're just palette swaps, yes, just as caster/healer gear is.

[SendohJin]

The reason why they don't share gear is due to the numbers on them. Look at Def/Mdef numbers.

welp, guess i never looked at that, that's even more awful. MNKs and NINs are getting screwed.

[Daralii]

I can't speak for the others making the SAM/DRG connection, but with me it's because my image of Samurai is a medium-heavy to heavy armour wearing kind of class/job. Which makes sense with Dragoon armour, since it wouldn't work to have Samurai share tank gear if it's not a tank job. But like I also said in the post you quoted: If Samurai is made with the lighter type of armour that it seems Yoshida envisioned it in, then it makes more sense to pair up SAM/MNK =D
(And like I said in my original post, if they make Red Mage a magic melee DPS, and have the base stat be Dex, it would make sense to let RDM/NIN share gear.)

I suspect red mages will share BLM/SMN gear, since Yoshida's talked about wanting a melee caster in the past.

[Giantbane]

SAM melee DPS

RDM healer


RDM could make a solid DPS class, but it's a bad idea to release 2 dps at the same time. Remember how bad the leveling queues were for NIN? It would be twice as bad.

[AlphaFox]

SAM melee DPS

RDM healer


RDM could make a solid DPS class, but it's a bad idea to release 2 dps at the same time. Remember how bad the leveling queues were for NIN? It would be twice as bad.

You know the more I think on it, I guess it wouldn't be a bad idea if they could make RDM a healer or dps, if they wanted to go in the way of stance or such prior to joining the dungeon/trial or whatever. Healer in one, DPS in another. If people are against this idea, then I would have to throw it to DPS cus you can't give me a sword then expect me to stand in the back healing waving my sword like a staff unless your going to link it like dancer where attacking your mob restores HP per strike and such.

[Duelle]

You know the more I think on it, I guess it wouldn't be a bad idea if they could make RDM a healer or dps, if they wanted to go in the way of stance or such prior to joining the dungeon/trial or whatever. Healer in one, DPS in another.

XIV's core design doesn't really allow for that, though. It'd be another story if we had specializations for our jobs, but the jobs themselves were implemented as specializations for classes. Sure, it didn't pan out, but that groundwork is still there.

In a perfect world RDM would be able to pick its role and go with it (though I'm sure you'd have drama over which RDM spec would be most useful to a group and we'd end up with "spam refresh or GTFO" like we did in FFXI). Since that's not the case, I lean towards melee DPS. It's the concept that to me feels most natural (between what i know of hybrids and my experiences in the game that got hybrids right, WoW) and avoids the slew of problems the job had the last time.

It also allows more flexibility and gives opportunity to play like a hybrid. A tank is too busy taking damage and focusing on staying alive to throw off-heals or use defensive cooldowns on other party members. Likewise, a healer is too busy keeping people alive and throwing out what DPS they can. DPS can make the active choice of hitting things or throw off-heals/some defensive cooldowns without really hurting anyone nor increasing the group's chances of failure.

I actually imagine it to be like the Arcanist/Summoner, in that it has a revive and a light heal, but is otherwise a DPS or a DPS support class. Sure you can keep someone alive for a bit, and save the day if things start going to shit, but your job is to make things dead.

This is how I would like to see it implemented as well. DPS as primary role, utility of some kind (I'd limit it to off-heals with limited use and Phalanx as a defensive cooldown you can use on one party member). Shares gear with BRD, deals NIN-level DPS.

Of course, if they do do it as such, you can bet that there'll be arguments re: "It doesn't need to hit as hard, it has a combat revive, it is a support class."

I wish SE would squash the whole support bit and get it through their heads it doesn't work in a trinity-based MMO. Of course, it's also partly the community's fault because in their universe DRG having +Crit and AST having +damage somehow don't count as support, yet they slog a bunch of bullshit at BRD and MCH and label them as support. That SE seems to titter between "BRD and MCH are DPS jobs" and "BRD and MCH are support jobs" doesn't help.

[Giantbane]

You know the more I think on it, I guess it wouldn't be a bad idea if they could make RDM a healer or dps, if they wanted to go in the way of stance or such prior to joining the dungeon/trial or whatever. Healer in one, DPS in another. If people are against this idea, then I would have to throw it to DPS cus you can't give me a sword then expect me to stand in the back healing waving my sword like a staff unless your going to link it like dancer where attacking your mob restores HP per strike and such.

Even if it were straight heals, RDM could have their own version of cleric stance, except it swaps MND & STR. Or, just have cleric stance, and make the sword buffs (en- etc) base damage off your current INT.

[Noxifer]

I suspect red mages will share BLM/SMN gear, since Yoshida's talked about wanting a melee caster in the past.

I rather suspect that as well, hence the emphasis on "and" ^^ I mean, they could choose to make them Dex-based and have their magic attacks scale off of that, just like NIN's mudras. It's not very likely, but they could.