Savage Alexander and the Paladin Exodus

[Dekent]

One fight not favoring a particular tanking style does not make a job worthless and in need of a buff. Pld excels in a2s and is still a worthy choice in a3s.

It kind of does when that's the current penultimate raiding content. If you can't clear it with a certain class without waiting extra months then there is a serious balance issue. If not addressed it'll just show up in the next high end raid.

[lawlHT]

It kind of does when that's the current penultimate raiding content. If you can't clear it with a certain class without waiting extra months then there is a serious balance issue. If not addressed it'll just show up in the next high end raid.

SE didn't expect or plan for us to be clearing a4s anywhere close to when it was. They expected it to take several more cycles of esoterics caps before we were capable. The only reason it was accomplished was because everyone in the clearing parties pushed massive dps. Pld is capable of clearing a4s at the ilevels the fight was tuned for, but to say that a class is worthless because it can't go above and beyond what the developers thought possible is silly.

All pld needs to shine again is for the game to start adding fights that require tanks to take harder hits instead of push dps to reach absurd checks. This can be done without massive buffs or nerfs to any class

[Sapphic]

Paladin is in the same situation for Alex savage as Dragoons where with Final coil.

SE didn't expect or plan for us to be clearing a4s anywhere close to when it was. They expected it to take several more cycles of esoterics caps before we were capable. The only reason it was accomplished was because everyone in the clearing parties pushed massive dps. Pld is capable of clearing a4s at the ilevels the fight was tuned for, but to say that a class is worthless because it can't go above and beyond what the developers thought possible is silly.

All pld needs to shine again is for the game to start adding fights that require tanks to take harder hits instead of push dps to reach absurd checks. This can be done without massive buffs or nerfs to any class

No, it just highlights the discrepencies between the 3 tanks.

By thinking as you are Warrior never would've had buffs in 2.0 as WARs could clear First coil after gearing up much more than PLDs where clearing it.

PLD are highlighted as being lower in DPS than DRK and WAR because of the additional mitigation with the shield. The shield does nothing against Magic damage. So even if full geared 210 they will be less effective where the damage is solely Magical in comparison to WAR and DRK.

AKA, in Savage PLD has the lowest DPS AND the worst mitigation.

BTW what turn in Alex savage are you upto? Just wondering.

[Nadirah]

SE didn't expect or plan for us to be clearing a4s anywhere close to when it was. They expected it to take several more cycles of esoterics caps before we were capable. The only reason it was accomplished was because everyone in the clearing parties pushed massive dps. Pld is capable of clearing a4s at the ilevels the fight was tuned for, but to say that a class is worthless because it can't go above and beyond what the developers thought possible is silly.

All pld needs to shine again is for the game to start adding fights that require tanks to take harder hits instead of push dps to reach absurd checks. This can be done without massive buffs or nerfs to any class

Then they should have delayed the release.

[Lone-wolfe-02]

SE didn't expect or plan for us to be clearing a4s anywhere close to when it was. They expected it to take several more cycles of esoterics caps before we were capable. The only reason it was accomplished was because everyone in the clearing parties pushed massive dps. Pld is capable of clearing a4s at the ilevels the fight was tuned for, but to say that a class is worthless because it can't go above and beyond what the developers thought possible is silly.

All pld needs to shine again is for the game to start adding fights that require tanks to take harder hits instead of push dps to reach absurd checks. This can be done without massive buffs or nerfs to any class

It's always the same excuse. "SE didn't expect this SE didn't expect that"

[Kyne_Lyons]

Paladin is in the same situation for Alex savage as Dragoons where with Final coil.

This is a salient point, and I actually was a Dragoon for Final Coil (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJE6AJaro94). We ran Dragoon/Ninja and did it with Dragoon Mdef problems, and no Dragon Kick. We had to spend extra weeks gathering gear to make up the difference in DPS/Healing requirements, in addition to having us wear extra VIT-melded jewelry. Unfortunately my raid group can't just wear melded accessories to make up for the deficiency this time around. It seems most of the top groups have come to the same conclusion.

[Wizhard]

SE didn't expect or plan for us to be clearing a4s anywhere close to when it was. They expected it to take several more cycles of esoterics caps before we were capable. The only reason it was accomplished was because everyone in the clearing parties pushed massive dps. Pld is capable of clearing a4s at the ilevels the fight was tuned for, but to say that a class is worthless because it can't go above and beyond what the developers thought possible is silly.

All pld needs to shine again is for the game to start adding fights that require tanks to take harder hits instead of push dps to reach absurd checks. This can be done without massive buffs or nerfs to any class

So...what youre saying is that pld is weaker than other tanks. Got it, thanks.

[Airget]

I think basing the accessibility of x tank job from the point of view of competitive world first raiders is a bit unfair. They will always choose to take the path of least resistance and for the most part the group will always think of the needs of the group rather than their own preference.

That's the thing, ina raid it's the damage that counts and as a raid they will do what can push the biggest numbers and as a raid they will put more stress on the healers if it means they can have tanks that deal more damage. But of course this honestly just goes to the idea that if PLD does need a perk it should be related to healers, they support healers by taking less dmg and having dmg mitigation abilities, so why not abilities/effects that help to empower healers DD potential. If the mp they use is less for curing then the cleric stance aspect of healers could be better used while a PLD is in the party with whatever special effect would allow them to empower their attacks. AKA rather than say just bump PLD to have the dark +80 DPS as PLD you instead offer the healers the opportunity to have +50 each. The risk and reward, having to time it right, and squeezing out every bit of power they can all while not losing to much MP and having people die for lack of being able to heal. I think something like that would offer a new level of strategy that PLD could offer instead of just buffing their own personal dmg.

[Kyne_Lyons]

Like I said, the purpose of this thread isn't to trot out my personal ideas on how to the fix the class. It's to highlight the balance issue that is present, and forcing groups progressing on A4S to drop Paladin entirely in order to clear the fight. I could stay Paladin, sure, but then I'd be making my raid group wait the better part of a month to get the gear to make up for the fact that I picked to play Paladin. It's unfair to me as a player who loves Paladin to have to switch, but it'd be even worse to force my group to suffer me playing the job.

Tank balance is a huge issue right now, but nobody clearing the content as Paladin is ever willing to talk about it until they get to A4S, which is the purpose of this thread. The most demoralizing thing is that I can switch to a Dark Knight, a job I have no Esoteric gear for, and get better performance on this encounter in every single metric. It's heartbreaking.

[Wizel]

One thing I believe should be allowed is for block/parry to work on magical damage. How many times in books, movies, anime, cartoons, tv have we seen a guy blocking a blast of energy with a shield or cut/deflect something with his weapon? This change would open up the shield's effectiveness and allow you to use Bulwark in rotations, maybe against magical it shouldn't be as effective, maybe only 50-75% damage reduction of what block/parry reduces against physical but I believe it would be a good change.