What makes WHM special? Nothing anymore.

[GideonHighmourn]

I'll just chime in to say that I don't really feel SCH is a gimmicky healer. It was (IMO) a really well designed alternative to just straight healing. My "proof" will be that their new skills were able to integrate into existing systems (ie use aetherflow, modify how existing SCH abilities work, etc etc). Even with the relatively homogenization, SCH is very distinct from WHM.

Now let's look at AST. Reskinned WHM spells... bolted on card system that doesn't integrate with the rest of the class... Yep, that I'd call gimmicky. (I say this even though I do enjoy AST)

I'm using gimmicky to describe the extra "mechanics" that certain people are up-in-arms about WHM not having. It's not a "category" of healing skills, necessarily; please don't take it as such.

Well, lets see, you have a shield and weapon so you can both block and parry attacks, which is an active mitigation of damage.

This is no way would provide a different way to play WHM, period. WHM shouldn't be taking damage, ever; if you are, chances are it's game over anyways when it comes to group play. It still would change absolutely nothing about how WHM actually plays, and the amount of whining that comes with people having to gather two weapons to get a comparable bonus to classes that have to gather one is reason enough to not bother with considering the idea.

If your entire argument as to why WHM "doesn't have an identity" is based around the fact that One-Hand/Shield combo is no longer a thing, I'll be done from this point forward; it's a completely pointless discussion, and holds no merit on how WHM actually performs or what it's identity is.

[Proteus6]

What WHM has that AST doesn't:
-an AoE that heals everyone for 300, damages all enemies for 300 AND restores 10% of my mana
-a 30% boost to healing power for 15 sec on a minute CD (which boosts HoTs, unlike AST's Synastry)
-a bubble that doesn't require channeling
-E4E
-Virus
-a mana restoring ability that reduces aggro immediately instead of just reducing aggro generated while it's active
-not one but TWO instant-cast heals that restore a crapton of HP (one restores ALL HP, while the other is 700 potency)
-an instant HoT with 150 potency (as opposed to AST's 140) which lasts for 21 seconds as opposed to 18 seconds and costs less mana (618 vs. AST's 707)
-the far more important MND party buff instead of PIE

If you're not healing better than an AST with this toolkit, maybe it's time to sober up to the fact that it's not the TOOLKIT that is to blame, here...

Seriously, go level AST to 60, and when your static leader politely but forcefully asks to to go back to WHM, maybe THEN you'll get the message.

This list is extremely misleading, especially to someone like me, who is currently still leveling and trying to decide between a WHM or an AST. Not only does it omit the tools that the AST has which the WHM lacks, but it misrepresents the comparison between the identical spells themselves: e.g., the HoTs are virtually identical in potency because the AST's has an initial potency, which is completely discounted in the comparison, and rather deceptively.

[RichardButte]

I thought you were toxic when you changed your main class from Astrologian to Scholar and then continued participating in this ongoing discussion. You're ckc22. This proves it without a doubt.

The hell...?

He and i are on different sides of this argument. He's crying for a WHM buff. I've done everything I can to point out why a buff to WHM is entirely uncalled for.

I switched to SCH so people wouldn't say, "Oh, just another AST main who hasn't played anything else..." You can see my three classes if you click on my profile. Had I wanted to HIDE the fact that I have AST at cap, I wouldn't have listed it as one of my three classes.

This list is extremely misleading, especially to someone like me, who is currently still leveling and trying to decide between a WHM or an AST. Not only does it omit the tools that the AST has which the WHM lacks, but it misrepresents the comparison between the identical spells themselves: e.g., the HoTs are virtually identical in potency because the AST's has an initial potency, which is completely discounted in the comparison, and rather deceptively.

The AST has 5% more potency in Noct stance and 5% more speed in Diurnal stance. There is no boost to HoT potency in Dirunal. What you see is what you get.

And if you want to go look at the abilities AST has, go nuts:
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Astrologian

WHM has a better bubble, better mana recovery, better AoE range, a better potency-boosting CD (one that increases HoTs as well), and better DPS output.

All of that is FACT, and no, I don't expect that to sway anyone because why should a silly little thing like "reality" taint anyone's perception of the situation?

[Gist]

The hell...?

He and i are on different sides of this argument. He's crying for a WHM buff. I've done everything I can to point out why a buff to WHM is entirely uncalled for.

I switched to SCH so people wouldn't say, "Oh, just another AST main who hasn't played anything else..." You can see my three classes if you click on my profile. Had I wanted to HIDE the fact that I have AST at cap, I wouldn't have listed it as one of my three classes.

Having all three classes leveled to 60 does not make you better than anyone else. You've been displaying toxic behavior towards several people in this forum in multiple threads, and you even openly admitted that you were toxic to players that you disagreed with, which is the exact same behavior (which may I remind you is against the general rules and reportable) as his, so please stop being toxic... I'm trying to ask nicely...

[NorthernLadMSP]

I thought you were toxic when you changed your main class from Astrologian to Scholar and then continued participating in this ongoing discussion. You're ckc22. This proves it without a doubt.

No way. That person is beyond hope. He lies on the forum (quite literally as I called him out on something, he lied, and then I went and found proof of what I had stated).

Richard seems like a good guy to me, and absolutely not the same person as ckc22.

[Proteus6]

The AST has 5% more potency in Noct stance and 5% more speed in Diurnal stance. There is no boost to HoT potency in Dirunal. What you see is what you get.

And if you want to go look at the abilities AST has, go nuts:
http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Astrologian

WHM has a better bubble, better mana recovery, better AoE range, a better potency-boosting CD (one that increases HoTs as well), and better DPS output.

All of that is FACT, and no, I don't expect that to sway anyone because why should a silly little thing like "reality" taint anyone's perception of the situation?

But the AST's HoT actually comes with a front loaded heal (which the WHM does not), so just comparing the HoT portion is misleading. They are equivalent really, and your comparison doesn't account for it.

Does the WHM really have a better bubble? The AST's has both damage reduction and a linger HoT that does not require standing in the bubble. That seems more flexible from a raid perspective to me.

Does the WHM really have better mana recovery? The AST can add an additional 5 seconds onto their LA, no? I don't know if this balances out the recovery of Assize, but also in addition to Ewer? I wouldn't say it's a surefire win, and someone else in this thread clearly stated that in identical encounters, they had better mana management with their AST over their WHM.

I understand that the WHM does have better range and slightly better cooldowns. I am still trying to figure out which class to take into end game, but I think your list was clearly one-sided and not helpful, other than as a rhetorical bludgeon perhaps.

[Tyla_Esmeraude]

WHM has a better bubble, better mana recovery, better AoE range, a better potency-boosting CD (one that increases HoTs as well), and better DPS output.

I just wanted to clarify that Synastry's potency boost does affect HoTs. I've tested it several times.

[Kosmos992k]

I suspect we're running into the same kinds of people here, and most of these people clearly haven't even leveled more than one healer to compare and contrast the performance of the two.

Scholar and WHM leveled to 50 quite nicely in ARR with their relics to boot, so yeah...whatever. The problem with your attitude is that you think you are absolutely correct and I and anyone who disagrees with you is absolutely wrong, a binary point of view that allows for nothing except right and wrong. That's fine in matters of fact, matters that are specific and quantifiable. I'm talking about how it looks and feels to me when I play, guess what, those are things that you can't quantify and argue with.

You made this long diatribe about people who refuse to a acknowledge when they are wrong, and yet you are so fixed and unmoving in your belief in your own correctness that you don't even for a moment acknowledge that there are other ways of looking at an issue such as identity that are not linked to specific arguments over skill potency or comparisons of skill sets.

Feel free to mock whoever you want Richard, it certainly reveals more about your personality than those you are mocking.

[PetiteMalFleur]

Having all three classes leveled to 60 does not make you better than anyone else. You've been displaying toxic behavior towards several people in this forum in multiple threads, and you even openly admitted that you were toxic to players that you disagreed with, which is the exact same behavior (which may I remind you is against the general rules and reportable) as his, so please stop being toxic... I'm trying to ask nicely...

LOLWUT??

I personally enjoy reading RichardButte's replies. I find them thoughtful, thorough, and engaging. On the other hand, your ad hominum attacks contribute nothing.

[Noira]

Having all three classes to 60 doesn't make you better than anyone else no.

It does however add more credibility to your side of an argument.