Simian Thrash ENHANCED!

[Gath]

You seem to be under the impression that the Stun is amazing - so amazing that doing 3x the damage of Jarring Strike II on a counter is not worth it without the Stun.

From what I can tell the Stun is most useful in interrupting the mob's WS. Otherwise you basically slow him down just a bit - and that's assuming you evade so often you effectively keep him unable to do anything. For that purpose, when tanking in a party, I don't see how it is much better than Shock Spikes being cast on you.

The Stun from Jarring Strike is very useful - more useful for certain battles (ie. vs Deepvoid Slave) and when soloing - but I wouldn't say it negates Simian Thrash entirely.

Simian Thrash does more damage than any current WS. It is an effective tool to use when you reach 3k TP. If you use Invigorate II when tanking on PGL like I do, then you will gain 3k TP even with liberal use of Jarring Strike II on evades. Then firing off a Simian Thrash will make quite the dent on the enemy.

Simian Thrash has a purpose: massive damage as punishment to the enemy. Removing the evade requirement removes the purpose.

Also, doing the same to Jarring Strike II will have a similar result. They will increase the TP cost to 1k and up the CD on it considerably. Spamming a Stun move is broken. Certain awesome skills are only that awesome because they require awesome evasion.

Evade a mob 8x in a row (which is awesome btw) and you can keep his ass stunned all the way. I've done this. It feels great.

I'm all for creative changes. Removing the evade requirement is not creative. It simply makes it into another boring WS.

Lol everything you said is wrong, your existence is wrong...just saying.
Anyhoo....When you have a lot of other abilities that take priority over ST, when you eventually get to where you can use a damage filler, people just use Victimize II.

My 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

[Murugan]

Lol everything you said is wrong, your existence is wrong...just saying.
Anyhoo....When you have a lot of other abilities that take priority over ST, when you eventually get to where you can use a damage filler, people just use Victimize II.

My 1 gil is worth more than your 1 gil.

I don't know I'd definitely say it is situational. Victimize II's main advantage is that it can be used in a BR, after 1.19 that won't be the case so I think Simian Thrash would be a much better full TP move because it does better damage.

I already use it when soloing, but I could easily fit it into my DD setup or tanking setup. Being our highest damaging ability, and given how fast we are capable of generating TP it isn't really filler. Just maybe a more advanced move to pull off, but all/most classes in the game have this. You just need to know when/how to use it.

[Gath]

I don't know I'd definitely say it is situational. Victimize II's main advantage is that it can be used in a BR, after 1.19 that won't be the case so I think Simian Thrash would be a much better full TP move because it does better damage.

I already use it when soloing, but I could easily fit it into my DD setup or tanking setup. Being our highest damaging ability, and given how fast we are capable of generating TP it isn't really filler. Just maybe a more advanced move to pull off, but all/most classes in the game have this. You just need to know when/how to use it.

Lol, well not using Jarring strike instead of ST makes you very inefficient when you solo. Same with tanking, why not negate the potential damage and save the healer some time. So, yeah as a damaged filler, Victimize II is a much more sound option, but that's after you apply 3 stacks of tue concussive blow debuff.

[NoctisUmbra]

Lol, well not using Jarring strike instead of ST makes you very inefficient when you solo. Same with tanking, why not negate the potential damage and save the healer some time. So, yeah as a damaged filler, Victimize II is a much more sound option, but that's after you apply 3 stacks of tue concussive blow debuff.

First off, what Murugan said about ST bein situational is 100% correct, but even as such it has it's use. You seem to be under the impression that Jarring Strike is better than ST in any circumstance when tanking - which actually leads me to believe that evading is something relatively rare for you when you tank on PGL.

I'm curious what you have your evasion and DEX at, because honestly you should be evading often enough to not feel like you messed up unless you use Jarring Strike II as your counter of choice for the opportunity.

If I have near-max HP and 3k TP when I evade, in most situations I will go for Simian Thrash because I have no trouble building TP or evading.

I'll repeat again: I'm not exactly arguing ST is perfect as is. I simply disagree with the notion that removing the evasion requirement will make ST better - unless of course they decide to keep the damage buffed as it is now, effectively ignoring any measure of class balance.

[Gath]

First off, what Murugan said about ST bein situational is 100% correct, but even as such it has it's use. You seem to be under the impression that Jarring Strike is better than ST in any circumstance when tanking - which actually leads me to believe that evading is something relatively rare for you when you tank on PGL.

I'm curious what you have your evasion and DEX at, because honestly you should be evading often enough to not feel like you messed up unless you use Jarring Strike II as your counter of choice for the opportunity.

If I have near-max HP and 3k TP when I evade, in most situations I will go for Simian Thrash because I have no trouble building TP or evading.

I'll repeat again: I'm not exactly arguing ST is perfect as is. I simply disagree with the notion that removing the evasion requirement will make ST better - unless of course they decide to keep the damage buffed as it is now, effectively ignoring any measure of class balance.

I evade more than often enough, but still, if you can get a stun off at any time it takes away POTENTIAL damage, and when you're tanking/soloing then ridding yourself of any damage, even if it is potential is more efficient, as of right now, Victimize II is close to ST in damage, so why not save the evade ability for a stun if a damage ability you can use at any time is just as viable, and I say this because Victimize II is piercing damage, and at this point, piercing damage outweighs the damage of other types of damage, be it slashing or blunt.

[NoctisUmbra]

I evade more than often enough, but still, if you can get a stun off at any time it takes away POTENTIAL damage, and when you're tanking/soloing then ridding yourself of any damage, even if it is potential is more efficient, as of right now, Victimize II is close to ST in damage, so why not save the evade ability for a stun if a damage ability you can use at any time is just as viable, and I say this because Victimize II is piercing damage, and at this point, piercing damage outweighs the damage of other types of damage, be it slashing or blunt.

In my testing I have done 900-1k+ damage on enemies that took 650-700 damage from a vic2 (including 3+ enfeebs on target.) I assure you, if the damage amount ST has on Vic2 was not significant I wouldn't be discussing this here with you right now. However, as it stands, when ST out-damages Vic2 it out-damages Vic2 quite drastically.

Not to mention one can argue ST not only has generally better accuracy, but also does not require enfeebs on the target to compare. One can argue in most situations the target should have enfeebs anyway, but when soloing you may find yourself in a situation where ST really calls out to be the proper choice.

Besides, if you evade enough and build TP properly anyway you'll have more than 250 TP and be ready to stun the target again real soon.

From what I can tell, people just want a nice shiny ultimate skill they can use whenever they want like other classes instead of being limited to a condition. Only reason I can think of them not seeing that in Victimize II and looking for ST to be made free to use is because Vic2 doesn't have a fancy, pink animation. Really?..

Also, ridding yourself of potential damage is not always more efficient when soloing/tanking. Again you have to think of this in a much more broad window. Many times, especially in soloing, a solid offence is the best defense.

[Firon]

I evade more than often enough, but still, if you can get a stun off at any time it takes away POTENTIAL damage, and when you're tanking/soloing then ridding yourself of any damage, even if it is potential is more efficient, as of right now, Victimize II is close to ST in damage, so why not save the evade ability for a stun if a damage ability you can use at any time is just as viable, and I say this because Victimize II is piercing damage, and at this point, piercing damage outweighs the damage of other types of damage, be it slashing or blunt.

I would also like to Add Gath that Victimize 2 will heal you more also cause of Bloodbath

[Gath]

I would also like to Add Gath that Victimize 2 will heal you more also cause of Bloodbath

I actually never tried that with Bloodbath, if that's the case the more formt he heal would make it better for survivability. With soloing survivability is what you want, eh?