What makes WHM special? Nothing anymore.

[RichardButte]

Sustained DPS of cards is low sure but most fights it boils down to burst DPS, a single stocked up AoE Balance card used at the key moment can make or break a boss attempt like say both HW trials.

Oh, so now only BURST DPS matters, right?

1. AST can (and will) fail miserably when they don't have that AoE balance ready at the right time.

2. WHM and SCH have more mana to spend DPSing than AST, who is still very much in danger of going OoM on healing-intensive fights.

3. The chance of an AST successfully setting up the AoE combo is very low.

So basically, AST is overpowered and totally replacing WHM in every fashion because...it has a small chance of boosting the party's DPS?

Here's an idea, how about folks wait until raid groups start dropping WHMs en masse in favor of ASTs BEFORE crying about it and making themselves look foolish?

Seriously, do you people spend ALL of your time imagining bad things that don't exist? If you're going to do that, you may as well quit MMOs and become horror novelists instead.

Probably be a lot more rewarding than crying on a forum, especially a few weeks later when it's demonstrated that none of what you were worrying about came to pass and you were throwing your dignity under the bus for absolutely nothing...

[Fevelle]

...

How many times someone needs to tell that it has nothing to do with AST but with WHM ONLY? The one thing related to AST here is that 3.07 patch changes made us realize that WHM is lacking identity, and no, Assize alone is no identity to a class.

[RichardButte]

How many times someone needs to tell that it has nothing to do with AST but with WHM ONLY? The one thing related to AST here is that 3.07 patch changes made us realize that WHM is lacking identity, and no, Assize alone is no identity to a class.

1. Tell the people like one I quoted that AST isn't a superior healer to WHM.

2. "Best healer in the game" is STILL an identity. Just because AST is using crappier versions of some of your spells does not mean you should be having less fun using them...

So I took AST in primarily to A2s last night (we've had this fight on farm but because of a new person we've had a learning curve again). For some exceptionally strange reason our handle of the Mechanics (Gobwalker, positionals, DPS dying etc) were never perfect in any one attempt so we ended up spending 2 and a half hours of pure wiping up to wave 9. In the last 30 minutes I changed back to WHM because the only difference to our other clear attempts was that I was testing out AST. I am positive however that AST was not the reason for the wipes...I was just disappointed in the cards which i will detail below.

My experience with AST and WHM has only verified that the two classes play exceptionally different.

AST cards do NOT compensate for mechanical errors. I expected that with the cards and a SCH that our DPS would not be hitting enrage because of the increase DPS/CD reduction cards that I rolled (I had a good variety last night). That was not the case as we hit enrage due to poor handling of mechanics too many times to count. This was kind of a disappointed because I didn't notice any tangible effects! It's so hard to measure the value of the cards and I'm still thinking of ways besides just standing next to a dummy and buffing people to show their effectiveness/ineffectiveness.

AST healing still does NOT compensate for a lot of stupid mistakes. AST has more utility but it has even less utility than WHM. Once it's gone, it's gone and it can get quite mana intensive from there on out unless you've spread a Ewer or get really lucky on your draws (I believed in the heart and got lucky). Mistakes I'm referring to is healing a DPS through tanking, a SCHs poor stance dancing locking them out of healing on intensive phases, solo healing two tanks as SCH is compensating for dead DPS and so on...

AST requires you to be far more strategic with your CDs because one their gone...they're gone for a long time. You will most likely OOM otherwise.

WHM has the luxury with MP and healing CDs that you can heal through 3/4 mistakes in a row and still have 'juice' to keep going. It might also be the fact that WHM is solely focused on healing that the distraction of the cards are more a hindrance than a benefit.

I have to run and get ready for work but I'll follow this up later.

Final thoughts is divine seal is still the best healing CD in game.

/thread

And if one more person whines that AST is better for content farming, then I have to ask: what the HELL do Whine Mages want???

World firsts AND farming runs?! Seriously, let AST have SOMETHING...

[Fevelle]

AST is not superior, now it's on pair. But STILL lacks identity TOO.

• Trait for drawing Ewer at X%MP, something like a version of FFT's Critical: Recover MP but using MP percentage instead of HP.
• Deck constructor, you can create the order of cards you want, and even if you screw up you can still draw Ewer because you have a trait to make it a dependable resource.
• Making Sect Change usable during battle, for the job to be a REAL hybrid who can still be competitive while having acess to both shields and regens (would need complete rework of some skills, but SE seems TOO LAZY to do that).

Quoting myself from another thread:

"Like the event that began today said, this is the time when we differ from the point of view of SQEX and "raise our eyebrows at each other", but that's what'll make this game and both AST & WHM shine in their own, unique ways.

Really, from the bottom of my heart, I feel that this AST buff was just a remedy for something that needs surgery. I am spending ALL my little free time grinding the MSQ to acess Heavensward, and I hope that when I do get AST, it's completely unique. This is not a War of The Healers, this is a war of players who want the game content to be flawless, well worked, new, viable and fun, not re-skins with minor tweaks at gameplay. We ALL KNOW Square can do better than that. Yoshida saved a WHOLE GAME, why can't he save 2 jobs? "

[RichardButte]

AST is not superior, now it's on pair. But STILL lacks identity TOO.

• Trait for drawing Ewer at X%MP, something like a version of FFT's Critical: Recover MP but using MP percentage instead of HP.
• Deck constructor, you can create the order of cards you want, and even if you screw up you can still draw Ewer because you have a trait to make it a dependable resource.
• Making Sect Change usable during battle, for the job to be a REAL hybrid who can still be competitive while having acess to both shields and regens (would need complete rework of some skills, but SE seems TOO LAZY to do that).

Quoting myself from another thread:

"Really, from the bottom of my heart, I feel that this AST buff was just a remedy for something that needs surgery. I am spending ALL my little free time grinding the MSQ to acess Heavensward, and I hope that when I do get AST, it's completely unique. This is not a War of The Healers, this is a war of players who want the game content to be flawless, well worked, new, viable and fun, not re-skins with minor tweaks at gameplay. We ALL KNOW Square can do better than that. Yoshida saved a WHOLE GAME, why can't he save 2 jobs? "

The post I quoted demonstrated that AST and WHM play differently.

Two classes can have some similar tools and still not play like each other.

[Fevelle]

Playing different isn't the same as performing differently. They still do the exact same. Having AST as a full hybrid who can Sect-dance while maintaining the party is way more fun and more unique, and still viable.

[Lyrica_Ashtine]

Playing different isn't the same as performing differently. They still do the exact same. Having AST as a full hybrid who can Sect-dance while maintaining the party is way more fun and more unique, and still viable.

Astrologians can change sects mid battle?! What kind of gameshark codes are you using?!

[Muahbec]

Playing different isn't the same as performing differently. They still do the exact same. Having AST as a full hybrid who can Sect-dance while maintaining the party is way more fun and more unique, and still viable.

wha- so you want AST to be both WHM and SCH WHILE IN BATTLE?
What?
A healer who can cast regens and shield everyone at the same time with only 1 MP regen tool and some random cards attached to it....yeah, of course, that's so balanced.
Btw, do not ignore the quote about WHM and AST in savage above, Rewind is a lv 60 WHM who played savage as both WHM and AST.
She knows what she's talking about.

WHM has no lack of identity at all.
AST came and copied BOTH WHM AND SCH.
Why do i only see WHMs whining like little kids?
And for the last time, before another whine mage appears saying "mah whm has no utility"
WHM was not meatn to bring "utility", utility will not heal your party, WHM is the pure healer, with the strongest single target heals and the strongest healing buff in the game.
All healers are viable now, WHM will AWAYS have their big and comfortable place in this game, this whole amount of drama is useless.

[EinherjarLucian]

--



You don't even need to go that far. Take a look at my thread asking for Supervirus to be rolled into Virus to see the SCH defense brigade out in force.

Hi, I play main SCH, and I'm okay with Supervirus getting rolled into Virus for all jobs that can use it. Also I'm okay with the Nocturnal buffs. Why? Because I don't feel insecure about my identity as an SCH by the AST changes. Also, like Cedane said, I look forward to all of my Healer teammates to be awesome together. If WHM or AST is a little more awesome than me, I guess this means people get healed better. Sounds like a win to me.

[Rewind]

Playing different isn't the same as performing differently. They still do the exact same. Having AST as a full hybrid who can Sect-dance while maintaining the party is way more fun and more unique, and still viable.

No they don't - they perform very differently.

WHM performance is much more simplistic, controlled and smoother than AST. If something goes wrong WHM can easily react and stabalize. AST has a lighter touch, its fast paced, strategic but sometimes can lose control quickly, especially if a lot of things go wrong whilst your CDs are on CD.... It's also quite distracting playing AST, you really need to be able to micromanage efficiently.