What makes WHM special? Nothing anymore.

[ViDare]

But, you can have an opinion on something, albeit an uninformed one, with having experience. The reality is, though, that even if we prefer those opinions don't exist, they can still have an impact on overall perception. Next time try not putting words in people's mouths.

Having an uninformed opinion is pointless, how can anyone take you seriously if you have no first hand experience with what you're talking about?

Read people's post the ones with all healers leveled can confirm that WHM is not lacking anywhere and is still the best at AOE healing, that SCH is still king when it comes to DPS and healing at the same time, and that AST seriously needed these buffs to be able to keep tanks alive. Meanwhile all the people that are complaining about their lose of "individuality" are people with one on of the classes leveled. If WHMs wanna complain that they don't have the largest single target heals then aim it as PLD's because Clemency makes cure 1/2 look like a joke potency wise. Their uninformed opinions are causing more unrest in these forums than there needs to be.

[Yorumi]

Having an uninformed opinion is pointless, how can anyone take you seriously if you have no first hand experience with what you're talking about?

Well anyone can look at a wiki page and get an idea how a class works. Sure nothing beats experience but it's not totally blind statements. Furthermore saying whm is fine based on some opinions on this board is pretty much just a big logical fallacy. That's not to say it's wrong but that doesn't make it true either just because someone with whm leveled said so.

As far as AST needed these buffs, that's not true. Ast needed buffs but not necessarily these buffs. An easy example is they could have played with the card system to allow it to reduce the overall healing necessary. In a case like that the net effect is the same as buffing heals but keeps a strong class identity. That's one of many potential solutions they could have gone with and instead like many other things took the lazy way out.

SE is honestly going about class identity in a very stupid way. Everyone within a role should be able to accomplish the same task just in different ways. The problem is SE is specializing classes for a task which means there's always a best choice for party setup. Although perfect balance is impossible I just havn't seen games where classes are so at each others throats all the time. They're all fighting to justify their spots in a party when if properly balanced that should be cosmetic.

[Cynfael]

It's really, really difficult to rationalize players offering these kinds of opinions and making these kinds of assertions when they lack experience with the classes/jobs in question.

No, simply looking at a Wiki page doesn't enable anyone to offer a credibly informed opinion on class balance. While it is true that having all healer Jobs leveled does not automatically make one's opinion an expert one, it is guaranteed that someone without proper experience is offering a less-than-informed opinion.

[ViDare]

[QUOTE=Yorumi;3278901]snipQUOTE]

You know there's a reason you go visit a doctor when you arent feeling well instead of just looking up all your symtoms on WebMD, because he's a specialist and know's what he's talking about cause he has experience. Meanwhile WebMD just gives you an idea and bam suddenly you have cancer. This is kinda the same thing. Sure you can go around and read wiki all you want but no, that doesnt make you an expert and tbh it makes your opinion on the matter unreliable. I'll take the opinion of someone with experience anyday.

[Yorumi]

No, simply looking at a Wiki page doesn't enable anyone to offer a credibly informed opinion on class balance. While it is true that having all healer Jobs leveled does not automatically make one's opinion an expert one, it is guaranteed that someone without proper experience is offering a less-than-informed opinion.

The problem is that people have spent more time attacking the person than anything else. Probably half the pages in this thread are nothing more than "oh yeah well you don't have whm leveled." That doesn't contribute anything to the discussion. Even when someone is completely uninformed you can still have a proper discussion and explain why their wrong. For some reason all the job boards just love to tell people their uninformed and walk away.

[ViDare]

The problem is that people have spent more time attacking the person than anything else. Probably half the pages in this thread are nothing more than "oh yeah well you don't have whm leveled." That doesn't contribute anything to the discussion. Even when someone is completely uninformed you can still have a proper discussion and explain why their wrong. For some reason all the job boards just love to tell people their uninformed and walk away.

Please go back and read all the post, there are multiple post where people are telling WHM's they are still on top when it comes to healing but the ones who are uninformed are the ones who refuse to see reason and continue to complain that they are under attack from the buffs AST received and that they've lost their indivduality. There are multiple post from people who have both or all 3 healers leveled who have all piped in to tell them that they are wrong but they refuse to accept it.

[NimueAstolat]

It's really, really difficult to rationalize players offering these kinds of opinions and making these kinds of assertions when they lack experience with the classes/jobs in question.

No, simply looking at a Wiki page doesn't enable anyone to offer a credibly informed opinion on class balance. While it is true that having all healer Jobs leveled does not automatically make one's opinion an expert one, it is guaranteed that someone without proper experience is offering a less-than-informed opinion.

Why do people keep saying this? It's an Appeal to accomplishment fallacy. You don't need to make a movie to criticize one.

[Cynfael]

As ViDare suggests, there are only so many ways to explain without finally having to come out and say that a poster lacks the experience/context to understand both where they might be wrong and where others might be right.

Further, shouldn't players know a little bit better than to throw out sweeping statements about class balance and identity when they themselves haven't yet gotten to see the bigger picture?

[Cynfael]

Why do people keep saying this? It's an Appeal to accomplishment fallacy. You don't need to make a movie to criticize one.

I committed no fallacy. It's true and reasonable to suggest that someone with experience is more likely to know what they are talking about, whereas the person without experience is extremely likely not to have the requisite knowledge....

[Dante_V]

Why do people keep saying this? It's an Appeal to accomplishment fallacy. You don't need to make a movie to criticize one.

So much this, while a person without all the healing classes leveled would have less experience this doesn't in and of itself invalidate a claim they would make. The /claim/ itself is what should be proven to be wrong and if it's just a personal opinion then it's subjective. Beyond that the fact that a person has experience doesn't make their claims any more viable than another either. Again each claim should be analyzed on it's own merits regardless of who makes it.