AST, MCH, DRK and their failure as new jobs at HW launch

[AppropriateName8544]

OP, if you feel you are not performing well at the new jobs why do you say the new jobs are shite? Why don't you look at your own performance instead of blaming the job? For myself I always try my best to work my style so that I can get the most out of the jobs I play, I read the forums daily to see what others have to say about abilities and I watch what other people in my party do on those jobs.

This thread should be deleted and the OP should read the class forums.

You don't have to be that rude. I am just asking for you guys'opinion, and I'm basing on the fact AST MCH for instance are the most concerned jobs by patches and had a heavy reworking of their skills since HW launch, far more than old classes. You can't deny that. If it's improved, it means its not working properly or/and is uncompetitive. I'm also refering to AST threads asking to be buffed, up to 3.07 at least.

[Trixxy]

Every new job is subject to buffs or nerfs.
Most of the complains OP must've seen are bad players whining and complaining without having taken the time to get involved with the new jobs first.

As for AST's: Yoshida himself mentioned that he was more worried about releasing it as an overpowered job rather than a slightly weaker one. They've taken their time figuring out how exactly they need to be buffed and I think that they've done a great job in 3.07.

[Chiramu]

You don't have to be that rude. I am just asking for you guys'opinion, and I'm basing on the fact AST MCH for instance are the most concerned jobs by patches and had a heavy reworking of their skills since HW launch, far more than old classes. You can't deny that. If it's improved, it means its not working properly or/and is uncompetitive. I'm also refering to AST threads asking to be buffed, up to 3.07 at least.

And your OP was not rude any way in the slightest?

[AppropriateName8544]

And your OP was not rude any way in the slightest?

Please quote me where I was being rude nor aggressive as you are coz I can't find it... plus I would like toadd I thought those jobs were failures "at" launch, as precised in the title I think you missed. Those jobs have been corrected since, at a different scale. But the thing is they needed correction, and that's wwhere my point is.

[Fyce]

Please quote me where I was being rude nor aggressive as you are coz I can't find it... plus I would like toadd I thought those jobs were failures "at" launch, as precised in the title I think you missed. Those jobs have been corrected since, at a different scale. But the thing is they needed correction, and that's wwhere my point is.

Well, if you weren't saying that SE was a bunch of lazy amateurs, which serves no purpose to your argument, that would've been a better start.

You obviously don't understand the amount of work 3 new jobs is or that you can't make balance tests the same way you do internaly and with thousands of players. Besides, you clearly don't take into account the starting period after the release of the Ninja where that job was completly overpowered. As someone already said, it's better for the balance to need to buff a new underpowered job rather than nerfing it because it's overpowered.
Especially with new challenges like Alexander.

So, yes, the new jobs needed adjustments... but that was quite an obvious thing from the start, even before they were released. The dev team was already ready to get some player feedback and was prepared to make these adjustments. And that's what we got.
It's only two months after the release of Heavensward and the jobs are now fine. Since your point was so obvious everybody know about it and the fact that adjustments were already made, I think you can understand that some people might think that your post was some kind of disguised troll just to throw a bunch of bad adjectives in the face of SE.

[AppropriateName8544]

Thanks to rhaja and riceisnice your understood my point.

[Indiction]

I just thought MCH was done very lazily..it just looked and acted too similar to BRD in my opinion...

Also anyone think that the type of playstyle MCH and BRD bring is not really compatible with FFXIV? I mean the typical archetype of a bard-playstyle (which is what both seem to be based off of) is support. I don't see a support-type queue slot :| In my eyes, teams are essentially trashing a DPS slot in favor of making it support, thereby gimping your DPS. I've seen the DPS disparity pretty clearly in A1, where we put a MCH/BRD on one Oppressor and a DRG/BRD on the other...suffice to say the HP gap was typically <10-15% to the point where the DRG had to go and DPS theirs... I get that adding support means decreasing other aspects, like DPS, but this kind of disparity is kind of sad... I'd rather they do something to use everyone' unused stats...like give a team MP regen skill to classes that have no use for their MP and a team TP regen skill to classes that have no use for their TP...If they did this, and raised BRD DPS to the standard...it'd break the bard archetype for sure, but I just don't see "support" fitting into FFXIV...

^This is all purely my opinion

[LineageRazor]

Also anyone think that the type of playstyle MCH and BRD bring is not really compatible with FFXIV? I mean the typical archetype of a bard-playstyle (which is what both seem to be based off of) is support. I don't see a support-type queue slot :| In my eyes, teams are essentially trashing a DPS slot in favor of making it support, thereby gimping your DPS.

If well implemented, the support abilities of a semi-support DPS should equal or exceed the DPS they're sacrificing; they may be lower DPS, but they make up for it by making their team members HIGHER DPS. 1 + 1 = 0.8 + 1.2. That's a big reason why BRDs were in such high demand in FFXI; BRDs were terrible DPS and had no native healing ability, but their songs made the three DPS on the team worth four and a half, more than making up for it.

The trouble is, in this game BRD's and MCN's support abilities mostly address resource management, meaning that they only boost other players' DPS when resources run low. Generally, the only places where resources run thin are in very difficult or lengthy battles. It's a bit like having accuracy on your gear; all but useless until you start challenging the toughest content.

It means that having a BRD or MCN on your team is a detriment for easy content, like dungeons or trials. Of course, content as easy as that, having a BRD or a MCN isn't going to lead to a wipe or anything, but for the min-maxer it's clearly better to bring a DRG.

[RiceisNice]

...

Party composition is a very tricky thing. A DRG at this point is just as mandatory to bring to the table as a MCH/BRD because of their individual dps and the utility the bring (being the only class that can buff BRD/MCH)

I just thought MCH was done very lazily..it just looked and acted too similar to BRD in my opinion...

Also anyone think that the type of playstyle MCH and BRD bring is not really compatible with FFXIV? I mean the typical archetype of a bard-playstyle (which is what both seem to be based off of) is support. I don't see a support-type queue slot :| In my eyes, teams are essentially trashing a DPS slot in favor of making it support, thereby gimping your DPS. I've seen the DPS disparity pretty clearly in A1, where we put a MCH/BRD on one Oppressor and a DRG/BRD on the other...suffice to say the HP gap was typically <10-15% to the point where the DRG had to go and DPS theirs... I get that adding support means decreasing other aspects, like DPS, but this kind of disparity is kind of sad... I'd rather they do something to use everyone' unused stats...like give a team MP regen skill to classes that have no use for their MP and a team TP regen skill to classes that have no use for their TP...If they did this, and raised BRD DPS to the standard...it'd break the bard archetype for sure, but I just don't see "support" fitting into FFXIV...

^This is all purely my opinion

I feel like that MCH (and a bit of BRD) got a lot of wasted potential when it came to the expansion. Look at ther intiial showcasing for HW previews, I'd imagine that MCH would have gotten a much more extensive use with their ammunition, rather than having two skills in our entire moveset with and every other skill only getting a flat +20 potency buff. Then you have both jobs, quite literally, getting the exact, same functional skills which unfortunately homogenizes their base-gameplay even more.

[CrimsonThunder]

With all due to respect to WAR and PLD's, DRK's main issue is that it feels like the class has to work harder than the other two just to compete on the same level and we're also lacking synergy with a few skills.

I mean our AOE threat is fantastic and debatably the best but it still relies on Blood Price and being hit to keep it up. While this isn't usually a problem there are situation when things aren't poking you as often as you need them too just to keep the MP flow up. Dark Arts seriously needs to be examined again imho because the boosts from it don't feel as useful as it's high MP cost.

Don't even get me started on Blood Weapon.