Meracydia/Miqo'te/Azys La speculations (spoilers)

[treuhavik]

It's quite loose right now, but the best theory I can conjure is that, much like the Garlean empire has done in our age, Allag invaded Eorzea early into the Third Astral Era, conquering/destroying/conscripting much of Mhach (the largest nation of this time, spanning from nigh all of Thanalan and into Mor Dhona).

Their motives for this, however, are unclear to me. Reason for this being that there are glaring problems with the obvious "They wanted Silvertear" explanation. Those problems being that Midgardsormr would've acted in defense of the lake, and Syrcus Tower would never have been built. ...Unless the Allagans sealed him as well...or the 'rebirth' that we witnessed in Keeper of the Lake wasn't his first.

[Belhi]

I thought the ruins of Qarn where from sixth Astral Era. Still its interesting. It begs the question how the Amdipori and the Nymians held them off if they had the tech to create Airships on top of extremely destructive magic. Nymian and Amdipori ruins are impressive but not really on the same scale.

[treuhavik]

I thought the ruins of Qarn where from sixth Astral Era. Still its interesting.

The Belah'dian civilization, which occupied the Sunken Temple of Qarn, was of the Sixth Astral Era, yes. And Belah'dians were composed of Mhachi survivors from the 6th Umbral Era Calamity.

This means that Mhachi people and culture had to have survived Allagan rule.

It begs the question how the Amdipori and the Nymians held them off if they had the tech to create Airships on top of extremely destructive magic. Nymian and Amdipori ruins are impressive but not really on the same scale.

What's saying Mhach had airships?

[Belhi]

Sorry, I was refering to the Void Ark. It seems strangely technologically advanced for what we know of the nations during the 5th Astral Era. Magic seemed more the focus.

My understanding of the lore was that the Mhachi, as the Black Magic nation, discovered Black Magic in the wake of the 5th Umbral Era as a means to survive. It was Shantotto who established Black Magic. Strictly speaking there is a entire Astral Era we know almost nothing about between the fall of the Allag and what we know of the birth of current Black Magic and the rise of the three nations that would become Nym, Mhachi and Amdapor. We don't even have an inkling on what triggered the 5th calamity as far as I'm aware.

That's not to say the Mhachi didn't discover Allag knowledge in their own pursuit for power. Im just not sure how the Allag could have invaded the Mhachi when they didn't rise as a nation for probably thousands of years after the Allag collapsed. I could see the Mhachi's ancestors having some such heritage but how much of that would have remained cohesive hundreds of years of being a conquered culture and two calamities seems hard to say.

[treuhavik]

Sorry, I was refering to the Void Ark.

So, I'm going to go ahead and say this, and I will happily eat my hat if eventually proven wrong, but the Void Ark is not Mhachi.
Claification: The Ark is of the Void itself, and seems to me like a living ship. How it got here is anyone's guess, however.

My understanding of the lore was that the Mhachi, as the Black Magic nation, discovered Black Magic in the wake of the 5th Umbral Era as a means to survive. It was Shantotto who established Black Magic.

Lost magicks were rediscovered during the Age of Endless Frost, yes.




My stance on the issue remains; that the development team intentionally placed those ruins there. They replicated exactly what we see in The Sunken Temple Qarn on Azys Lla, and presented it as older than Azys Lla, lol.

My reasoning for theorizing that Allag conquered Mhach? Allagan Sun Temple. It's clearly Mhachi architecture, but titled as Allagan.

[Nalien]

Sorry, I was refering to the Void Ark. It seems strangely technologically advanced for what we know of the nations during the 5th Astral Era. Magic seemed more the focus.

Nym had a floating city, would it really be so odd for the Mhachi, who by all accounts seem to have been winning the War of the Magi, to have a floating Ark? Who's to say it is even technological in nature, like modern Airships. A lot of powerful magic was flying around at the time, a powerful and persistent Float spell would be the least of my expectations...

My reasoning for theorizing that Allag conquered Mhach? Allagan Sun Temple. It's clearly Mhachi architecture, but titled as Allagan.

Wait, I'm confused... How would Allag conquer Mhach? Didn't the Mhach come after the Allagan Empire fell? Mhach/Amdapor/Nym and the War of the Magi were Fifth Astra Era, as far as I remember, while the Allag were around during the Third or Forth?

Unless I've got that completely wrong, I find it more likely that Mhach just copied Allagan architecture, the same way Garlemald copies Allagan munitions.

[Eisen-Zorn]

It's quite loose right now, but the best theory I can conjure is that, much like the Garlean empire has done in our age, Allag invaded Eorzea early into the Third Astral Era, conquering/destroying/conscripting much of Mhachi (the largest nation of this time, spanning from nigh all of Thanalan and into Mor Dhona).

Their motives for this, however, are unclear to me. Reason for this being that there are glaring problems with the obvious "They wanted Silvertear" explanation. Those problems being that Midgardsormr would've acted in defense of the lake, and Syrcus Tower would never have been built. ...Unless the Allagans sealed him as well...or the 'rebirth' that we witnessed in Keeper of the Lake wasn't his first.

I know that the Allagan Empire covered most of Hydaelyn, but maybe they started in Eorzea? As far as I can recall, I don't remember anyone mentioning where the Allagan Empire originated from.

I just know that, as far as Meracydia is concerned, that the Allagan Empire came from Eorzea to Meracydia and that's where the whole mess with Bahamut and Tiamat started.

[treuhavik]

I find it more likely that Mhach just copied Allagan architecture, the same way Garlemald copies Allagan munitions.

This is certainly a possibility. But why? If all of Allag's technology was contained in Azys Lla, what made the Allagans so great in the eyes of Mhach that they needed 'become' the next Allag?

The only way this makes sense is if the Mhachi people found the Allagan ruins of Carteneau and were so super impressed with what they found there, they copied the architectural design, adopted Azeyma as their patron deity, and decided to force their use throughout the entire nation of Mhach.

[Nalien]

This is certainly a possibility. But why? If all of Allag's technology was contained in Azys Lla, what made the Allag so great in the eyes of Mhach that they needed 'become' the next Allagans?

That's not the case though. Allagan relics are all over the place, case and point; Garlemald. While we don't know exactly what fueled their discovery of Magitek, we can be almost certain it was the discovery of something Allagan, since most of the Garleans technology is a shoddy knock-off of Allagan technology; There is even a quest in Azys Lla where a Node comments on this. The Garleans found Allagan technology, were impressed with it, and started replicating it.

The finally thing the Allag even did, was start researching the Void. Mostly to fulfill Xandes nihilistic ambitions and unleash the Cloud of Darkness, but they were also creating synthetic Voidset and figuring out how to use them for warfare. For the Mhachi, a nation of Void Mages, don't you think that would be impressive? Inspiring even. Heck, it must have been. We know of two acts the Mhachi did during the War of the Magi, both of them involved unleashing Voidsent. They directly continued what the Allag started; Using Voidsent as weapons.

[Eisen-Zorn]

That's not the case though. Allagan relics are all over the place, case and point; Garlemald. While we don't know exactly what fueled their discovery of Magitek, we can be almost certain it was the discovery of something Allagan, since most of the Garleans technology is a shoddy knock-off of Allagan technology; There is even a quest in Azys Lla where a Node comments on this. The Garleans found Allagan technology, were impressed with it, and started replicating it.

The finally thing the Allag even did, was start researching the Void. Mostly to fulfill Xandes nihilistic ambitions and unleash the Cloud of Darkness, but they were also creating synthetic Voidset and figuring out how to use them for warfare. For the Mhachi, a nation of Void Mages, don't you think that would be impressive? Inspiring even. Heck, it must have been. We know of two acts the Mhachi did during the War of the Magi, both of them involved unleashing Voidsent. They directly continued what the Allag started; Using Voidsent as weapons.

All of the Garlean's technology Magitek appears to be based off of what they found at Ala Mhigo. While the Garleans did attack Eorzea initially with highly sophisticated technology, the first record of Magitek weapons appear at the Battle of Cartenaeu.

The Battle of Cartenaeu happened five years prior to ARR.

Ala Mhigo was taken twenty years prior to ARR.

I'm guessing that the Garleans had already been reverse engineering Allagan technology, but the capture of Ala Mhigo gave them the massive leap in technology that they needed to create Magitek.