is AST a better substitute for WHM or SCH?

[Blood-Aki]

Please leave derailing at the door. Question was about pairing with astro and not bashing a job that worksjust as well.

That really isn't derailing and the very fact you think it works "just as well" when they are no where near the same, further makes you look silly. Do you even try anymore?

With that out of the way.

I would WHM+AST Combo. unless you're in a fight that needs heavy mitigation, it's hard to choose. The MND bonus is pretty helpful to AST since they need all the help they can get. Not really sure why AST has PIE bonus anyway. But i guess they had to choose one of them.

[Anatha]

This,

That really isn't derailing and the very fact you think it works "just as well" when they are no where near the same, further makes you look silly. Do you even try anymore?

With that out of the way.

I would WHM+AST Combo. unless you're in a fight that needs heavy mitigation, it's hard to choose. The MND bonus is pretty helpful to AST since they need all the help they can get. Not really sure why AST has PIE bonus anyway. But i guess they had to choose one of them.

and this,

Trust me, if you're a SCH in savage with an AST you need to be good at healing. You pretty much have the entire raid in your hands since AST throughput is limited and their emergency heals are weak.

Really sums it up.

[RiisWolf]

. . . . at least a Diurnal AST can provide the sort of easy, constant HoT application and on-demand Medica-style healing that a WHM would contribute to compliment the SCH's style.

While it does compliment the SCH's inability(with Selene) or limited(With Eos) ability to provide regens, there is just two problems Diurnal has.

1) It does not affect Essential Dignity like Nocturnal does.

2) All of the AST's regens are laughably weak. So weak to the point it makes you think you never applied them in the first place, or at least you'll be healing like you never applied the regens. You need barriers to make them at all effective.

Also it's not fair that they stack with WHM regens, while the barriers don't.

[Akyio]

2) All of the AST's regens are laughably weak. So weak to the point it makes you think you never applied them in the first place, or at least you'll be healing like you never applied the regens. You need barriers to make them at all effective.

its not really true, medica 2 ticks for 50, asp. helios also ticks for 50. though medica2 heals for 200 instantly, while asp. helios 140.
regen is 150, asp. benefic is 100, but asp. benefic instantly heals for 190 before starting to tick, which is still eventually weaker but not laughably
though it is weaker in general because of no divine seal and presence of mind, but it's not that very horribly weaker.

[Cynfael]

While it does compliment the SCH's inability(with Selene) or limited(With Eos) ability to provide regens, there is just two problems Diurnal has.

1) It does not affect Essential Dignity like Nocturnal does.

2) All of the AST's regens are laughably weak. So weak to the point it makes you think you never applied them in the first place, or at least you'll be healing like you never applied the regens. You need barriers to make them at all effective.

The 5% healing potency buff from Nocturnal doesn't make or break anything. It's true that Diurnal's 5% attack speed buff does nothing for abilities like Essential Dignity, but we would only care about these differences if both Sects were on roughly equal footing otherwise, which they unfortunately aren't.

AST regens are fine. The only way they really lose is if you compare the HoT from A. Benefic directly to the WHM spell Regen, as Akyio notes. We're still talking about a lot of additional healing potency over time, however. Discounting AST HoTs would be a mistake.

[Ghishlain]

regen is 150, asp. benefic is 100, but asp. benefic instantly heals for 190 before starting to tick, which is still eventually weaker but not laughably

Just to add to this, Diurnal Aspected Benefic total potency is 790 which is about 12.3% weaker than Regen's 900 potency within the same number of ticks. As others earlier have mentioned, it's a noticeable difference but not game breaking.

What drives Diurnal Aspected Benefic desirability down is how MP inefficient it is compared to Regen but it's a tool in the Diurnal AST toolkit that assists with their output and should be maintained 100% of the time. In my mind, Diurnal Aspected Benefic is also the one spell that drives the nail in the coffin for Nocturnal AST because this allows for more thoughtput at less MP cost overall.

[Crater]

1) It does not affect Essential Dignity like Nocturnal does.

Essential Dignity is not affected by either Sect. The potency boost on Nocturnal Sect applies to healing magic; Essential Dignity is not magic but an Ability.

This is pretty easy to verify by cross-classing Cure (400 potency, magic) and comparing its power to Essential Dignity in either sect. In Diurnal, Cure will be identical, but in Nocturnal, Cure will be noticably stronger than ED.

[Cynfael]

Essential Dignity is not affected by either Sect. The potency boost on Nocturnal Sect applies to healing magic; Essential Dignity is not magic but an Ability.

This is pretty easy to verify by cross-classing Cure (400 potency, magic) and comparing its power to Essential Dignity in either sect. In Diurnal, Cure will be identical, but in Nocturnal, Cure will be noticably stronger than ED.

Good point on ED being a "spell" vs. an "ability". So even that tiny, tiny bone is off the table.

[RiisWolf]

AST regens are fine. The only way they really lose is if you compare the HoT from A. Benefic directly to the WHM spell Regen, as Akyio notes. We're still talking about a lot of additional healing potency over time, however. Discounting AST HoTs would be a mistake.

I didn't say don't do it. I'm just sayin it's weak.

Essential Dignity is not affected by either Sect. The potency boost on Nocturnal Sect applies to healing magic; Essential Dignity is not magic but an Ability.

This is pretty easy to verify by cross-classing Cure (400 potency, magic) and comparing its power to Essential Dignity in either sect. In Diurnal, Cure will be identical, but in Nocturnal, Cure will be noticably stronger than ED.

Easy Mistake. lol