The "Casual PvP Problem" (For Tomes and Exp) and Possible Fixes

[Zorlinta]

So your happy to lose just to receive a few eso tomes rather then working towards your mounts, more wolf marks and more exp for coming first? At least people would strive to get first if they made the tomes only for first place.

Well as myself as casual im not happy with any loose at all, but eso reward compensate it, and have no hard feelings.
I dont care about mount, marks or exp, though if got them by just accumulation is fine.
So no eso for just participation will mean i will no participate at all and same if the eso goes down and becomes worst than running dungs for same time.

Im ok just participating and following directions given, though if direction is going into a suicide mission, go ahead and ill watch your back.

[Februs]

Well without a good explain, a good plan, and good leaders we casual players are just cannon fodder.

This is true, but it's the hesitation that kills people.

The problem is that there really is only TWO strategies to this game mode. Cap nodes and defend, or full assault. The thing is, most PvP'ers go for the option that is more obvious. They go for the closest node, cap it, and try to dig in. The problem with this is that there is not a single character class in this game that is not built for some variety of assault. You can't form a shield wall. You can't erect barriers or defenses (ground aoes are pitiful for those of you thinking that's a defense). There's no real way to actually "dig in." The only strength a team has is in numbers and concentrated efforts. When people realize that, it's pretty easy to see that you're only real option is to attack.Even defense strategies require an attack at some point, in order to capture nodes (unless you are totally blessed by RnGsus and just get them without any fighting).

The problem is that people chicken out and fall back on camping the nodes because it's "safe." They don't realize that it's only safe until you get attacked and find out you have no real means of holding back the attackers. Worse yet, people are constantly torn between what they should do. You get the aggressive people wanting to attack. You get the cowards wanting to sit back and avoid fighting at all costs. and then you get the people caught in the middle unsure of where to go or what to do. This leads to divided forces, and the strays get picked off when they don't have the full force of their team behind them.

It happens a lot. You're not alone in this. It's not just a "casual" pvp'ers problem. It's a problem born of bad communication and people not really getting how this game mode should be played. Experienced PvP'ers can usually direct their team in a smart way, and more skilled players make the fighting go easier, but, as it is now, the experienced pvp'ers are dramatically outnumbered by the casual players who only yell one thing in the chat box: "Defend!" As if that word will somehow make defense more possible when you have your players scattered around the map and unsure of where to go or what to do.

For your controller, try the circle jerk method. I do it all the time and it works fine. Some tips are, try to keep the target you want to hit in the centre of your screen. Adjust camera as necessary, and learn to be quick with your fingers. Circle, X circle, X, find your target and pounce. It takes some practice, but you can get pretty quick at it. The only time this method doesn't work, and I'd recommend trying to find a way to work your sofa for a keyboard and mouse, is if you're healing. You can't really circle jerk your target marker to your own team mates. =/

[Guesswhat]

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The worst anyone can do is to performed halfassed attacks. Either be full in or don't attack at all. The only reason halfassed attacks works sometimes is because the defending team are either total noobs or chicken out. At times I tend to trust people to be all in, just to discover 5 seconds later half the team have chickened out.

There are also times it is stupid to attack. For example: Your team grabs 3 nodes close to each other, and there is a node far off. Attacking now would be stupid. But some people do it anyway, while your team gets sandwiched by the 2 other GCs. In this case it may actually be wise to give one up, depending on the sandwich situation. Hell, you might even want to just defend the center one if both teams goes full out on the edges.

Yeah, less PvE rewards; fewer casual PvPers. I don't know how healthy it would be to remove it though in its current state.

[Synestra]

There' s a limited amount of eso you can even get, and weekly cap is easily reached just by running your day to day roulette's... WHY THE HECK SHOULD PVP'ER SYMPATHIZE WITH YOUR LAZINESS?!

I feel ya but there are peoples that focus heavily on both PvE and PvP, im one of them and tomes from pvp is godsend as i really REALLY dont what to run roulettes because there is high propability of getting shit group. Instead SE should have made it that winning gives you 20 2nd place gives 10 and 3rd place gives 5, that way you still get something while encouraging to go for a win if you want to cap tomes faster.

[Synestra]

Well without a good explain, a good plan, and good leaders we casual players are just cannon fodder.

Casual or not it should only take match or two to understand how seal rock works, you can easily impliment basic irl war startegy in there like flanking low defece targets(tomeliths)or take notes from MOBA/RTS/FPS games and apply them in here. Like ignoring tome that has less than 20% left(if its close and theres no defece, then ofc you go and cap it even if you only get few ticks), pre-scouting new spawns so you can insta cap them when they spawn. I always get mad when peeps starts to whine that we lose because there is no leader, you dont need a leader just use commonsense and minimap thats all you really need in here.

PS: Sometimes these so called "leaders" just plain suck and dont even know how seize is supposed to be played(seize is pretty much adapting a changing situations on the fly, thanks to tome spawn RNG)or their "commads" are announced waaaayyyy too late. Sure there are good leaders but its still best to know everything by yourself so you dont need to be babysitted.

[Zorlinta]

Casual or not it should only take match or two to understand how seal rock works, you can easily impliment basic irl war startegy in there like flanking low defece targets(tomeliths)or take notes from MOBA/RTS/FPS games and apply them in here.

Not true, for me took me like 5 match to understand the mechanics and how those nodes appear, also never been really interested in other pvp games.

just use commonsense and minimap thats all you really need in here.

Common sense tells me not move and run away/hide from battle to stay alive.

Still best to know everything by yourself so you dont need to be babysitted.

The only thing in wich i agree with you.

[Iagainsti]

So your happy to lose just to receive a few eso tomes rather then working towards your mounts, more wolf marks and more exp for coming first? At least people would strive to get first if they made the tomes only for first place. Seriously I won't be surprised if SE changes the ADS mount from 200 wins to 200 loses! Seems to be what they do for pve players so they can feel like special snow flakes

Speak for yourself; I have my mounts a la running Frontlines (Slaughter)(Secure) and still enjoyed getting my tomes outside boring Ex roulette. PvP allowed me to gear for FCoB. I don't enjoy losing like i don't enjoy getting words put in my mouth per se ^^, but i'd seriously offing hate it if the loss cost me my tomes also.

[Mikedizzy]

Adders on Behemoth (Primal) are doing pretty well at least when I am playing. There is a lot of teaming up with Mael and Flames trying to jack us...LOL.
Loving PvP and can't wait to get in tonight and Fell Cleave someone's as$.

[Synestra]

also never been really interested in other pvp games.

Well this explains alot then, if you havent done any pvp in any game then its not suprise and that is totally understandable. All you need is practice when it comes to pvp in general so you understand how it works, and this is what i meant by having a common sense. Also there is no need to be afraid to die in pvp, it happens for multiple reasons now and then and no matter how good you are you cannot solo whole alliance without support. Just play smart and try to avoid death as much as possible while still playing the mode as it is supposed to be played(there are times when its best just to defend and times when you and your allies need to push hard on objective even if it ends full team/alliance wipe, atleast you tried and that is what matters most).

[Februs]

The worst anyone can do is to performed halfassed attacks. Either be full in or don't attack at all. The only reason halfassed attacks works sometimes is because the defending team are either total noobs or chicken out. At times I tend to trust people to be all in, just to discover 5 seconds later half the team have chickened out.

I know exactly what you mean. I find it's particularly troublesome with the day crowd. A few people start to trickle in for an attack, get to the edge of the node, and then poof, everyone is gone. They all bailed out and left the few brave souls to try and fend off a squad of angry enemies. It's infuriating.

As for defending, the only time I usually recommend defense is if A) the enemy is trickling in (chickens or non-committal), or B) they aren't coming at all, because they are too focused on the other GC to pay attention to you. Otherwise, I don't usually find defense preferable to offense, even when defending. Take your example. If you have 2-3 nodes, it is definitely not wise to charge out for a fourth (unless doing the Death Train strat, but that's another story.) and defending 3 is certainly hard. It spreads you too thin. Abandon one. I agree. However, even across 2, your defense is still thin, especially if the enemy throws their entire GC at you. 8-16 people cannot defend against 24, unless those 24 really suck. The better plan is to consolidate your ENTIRE team into a spear and cut through the enemy that attacks you first, or has the most points to steal. Go full offense on that team, even at the expense of defending your second node. Sure, the other GC might back cap it on you, but who cares? You will have more than made up the point difference on whatever they got off of your node by carving it out of the bodies of your attackers. Also, by riding out and completely eliminating one force of attackers as quickly as possible, you just opened up a escape route and gave yourself time; so, if the 3rd GC is really greedy and comes for your last node, you can either fight them off or bail out without getting hit in the rear.

Fighting on 2 fronts is almost never a good idea. The main difference between defending the two nodes (letting the enemy come to you and hit you until you either fend them off or the node is dry) vs attacking your attackers (riding out and crushing one group that threatens your node) is that one stands to gain you points, while the other potentially bleeds them. Defense seems like the plan that would save you points, but, if you really pay attention to the scoreboard, your gains off of the nodes you have are being dramatically reduced because you're losing points for every team mate that stand and dies trying to keep the node. The longer the assault, the more points you stand to lose. Offense gains you points by murdering your attackers. You willfully give up nodes, but you gain the difference by stealing the points from another GC.