Black Mage Sanctuary - A Guide to DPS

[HaroldSaxon]

Not had chance to check your spreadsheet, but have you taken into account the differing gains for spellspeed for Fire 4/B4? (I.e. you get more gain out of it on a 3 second cast than a 2.5 second cast)

[Waliel]

Not had chance to check your spreadsheet, but have you taken into account the differing gains for spellspeed for Fire 4/B4? (I.e. you get more gain out of it on a 3 second cast than a 2.5 second cast)

I'm not sure if it matters, but isn't it percentually the same reduction for both? 200 SS reduces cast time by the same X% for F1, F4, Flare, and so on.

[Aikaal]

I'd assume Spell Speed is 16.6% better on F4 since it's 3 secs versus regular 2.5 seconds.

And yes, I do believe 31 Speed + 68 Det > 102 Crit.

Because 26.5 Speed is 0.01 for F1 and I'm pretty sure 0.01 sec on Fire IV is 23 Spell Speed or around that. I jsut don't believe in Crit. BLM gets nothing extra from Crit.

Crit gives Spell Speed on SMN, can't say anything about BRD. Everybody has Internal Release, BLM is stuck with vanilla Crit and without Battle Literaly crit feels really week x.x Just my personal opinion. We don't have stat weights but it's probably Spd > Crit > Det

[StouterTaru]

I'd assume Spell Speed is 16.6% better on F4 since it's 3 secs versus regular 2.5 seconds.

It's still proportional. If you add on enough spell speed to knock 2% off your F1 cast, you'll knock that same 2% off your F4 cast, not 2.4%.

[Xenitan]

I'm not sure if it matters, but isn't it percentually the same reduction for both? 200 SS reduces cast time by the same X% for F1, F4, Flare, and so on.

It is. There is no difference in impact between spells.

The biggest difference is in DPS structure, where with a longer rotation more spell speed gives you some more flexibility. But that's entirely discrete and nobody's really done anything to consider it.

Or in other words:

(Warning, math)

DPS can be calculated as follows:

Let R = potency per second from your rotation
Let P = Damage per potency
Let C = Crit multiplier

And the DPS is basically R*P*C. Really simple.

R is a little weird. It has two components- the length of the GCD and the spells you can get away with using (because of the shortented GCD). Lets just further divide these into two components S and G

G = 2.5/GCD. Pretty simple.
S = The spells you cast in your rotation's potency per second assuming a 2.5 GCD (a little counter intuitive, but think about it like this: you can cast 3 Fire IV's under a 10 second Astral Fire with a 3.0 timer. With a 2.5 timer, you can fit 4 in. In this case, S would be 4*280/3. Even if that implies you have a 12 second astral fire, we separate this because it's much harder to calculate than the GCD which is known to us).

Crit is easy to describe, but I want our multiplier to include the rate and the bonus because both are modified by crit. You have a 1-Crit chance% chance to not crit and a Crit chance % to crit. A crit does D extra damage per noncrit damage. So you have a 1-crit chance% chance to do 1 damage and a crit chance% chance to do 1 plus D damage. This simplifies to 1+(Crit Rate%)(Bonus Damage)

P is regressed and in the spread sheet.

This refines the formula to S(SS)*G(SS)*C(Crit)*P(WD,Int,Det).

We don't know much about S, and we know enough about G,C and P to regress formula for them. One thing to note about S is that it has the property S(X) <= S(X+1). So for short term, we assume S is constant and just calculate G*C*P. A higher value here suggests your spells do more damage per second. So for simplicity I set S to be the value it would be for blizzard spam (easy to understand) and say it's analogous to your DPS if we assume S(X)=S(X+1). This is why my model absolutely undervalues Spell Speed, though it may not be by a significant amount. One thing to note is that S needs to also consider that you will always be spending a static amount of time regenerating mana. You can list out the rotation and say "oh here it is" but for accuracy you need to include probability, mana ticks and a host of other nonsense.

So yes. Technically you can say that with longer spells, spell speed gives more benefit. However this is only in terms of S so unless you're giving me accurate potency per second per rotation values depending on spell speed in a way that includes procs and the fact that the time you spend in umbral ice is NOT dependent on spell speed, then for all intents and purposes the DPS calculator doesn't care about it and for any practical application SS doesn't care about the cast time.

And that's the theory behind why I decided to use Blizzard spam short term. I could have waited, given myself time to figure out how best to calculate your rotation's potency per second with respect to spell speed. But I didn't because you're spending your esoterics, your gordian pages on gear *right now* and I wanted to give the community something useful so that we can make educated decisions on what to purchase.

[drmambo1999]

Forgive me if I missed this topic in this thread, but I can't seem to find it. What are some recommendations for BLM AOE rotations for 3.0?

Currently I am using Lay lines>raging strikes> Fire 3>Flare>convert>swiftcast>Flare>Transpose>Fire 3>Fire 2>Fire 2>Flare>Transpose>repeat and wait for cool downs. Is this still and effective AOE rotation?

Are there any others that get more DPS that someone could recommend to me? Thank you for your time.

[HaroldSaxon]

I'm not sure if it matters, but isn't it percentually the same reduction for both? 200 SS reduces cast time by the same X% for F1, F4, Flare, and so on.

I don't know the formula for it which was why I was asking. I just don't have the time to theorycraft as much as I once did without dropping raidtime. There are other things like fitting extra spells in a rotation (Under Ley Lines, F4, TC*+Swiftcast, F4, F4, F3* is fun during a cooldown rotation).

[HaroldSaxon]

It is. There is no difference in impact between spells.
So yes. Technically you can say that with longer spells, spell speed gives more benefit. However this is only in terms of S so unless you're giving me accurate potency per second per rotation values depending on spell speed in a way that includes procs and the fact that the time you spend in umbral ice is NOT dependent on spell speed, then for all intents and purposes the DPS calculator doesn't care about it and for any practical application SS doesn't care about the cast time.

Regarding Ice phase, it can allow you get into Fire phase quicker. In 2.x, we have T1+B1, using the B1 as filler if we needed a GCD due to a slow mana tick. Quite often, we wouldn't need the filler spell, with Thunder 1 sufficing.

If we get a slow mana tick now, we use B4+T1/B1 (or T1/B1+B4) as a filler if needed. B4 is a longer cast than T1. So immediately there are scenarios where you gain in ice phase.

On top of that, depending on Enochian timers, remaining thunder dot and thundercloud procs, B4+T1 (or T1+B4) would be improved with spellspeed and maybe even preferred to compared to just B4 when getting a quick mana tick. (depending on what part of the rotation you are in).

[Garotte14]

Regarding Ice phase, it can allow you get into Fire phase quicker. In 2.x, we have T1+B1, using the B1 as filler if we needed a GCD due to a slow mana tick. Quite often, we wouldn't need the filler spell, with Thunder 1 sufficing.

If we get a slow mana tick now, we use B4+T1/B1 (or T1/B1+B4) as a filler if needed. B4 is a longer cast than T1. So immediately there are scenarios where you gain in ice phase.

On top of that, depending on Enochian timers, remaining thunder dot and thundercloud procs, B4+T1 (or T1+B4) would be improved with spellspeed and maybe even preferred to compared to just B4 when getting a quick mana tick. (depending on what part of the rotation you are in).

I feel that as we progress in 3.0 with gear, eventually we'll get to a point where T1/B1 + B4 will be required. I'm actually even wondering if by the end of 3.0 with the spell speed we'll have, if T1 + B1 + B4 we'll be a necessity. Or switching to thunder 2

[HaroldSaxon]

I feel that as we progress in 3.0 with gear, eventually we'll get to a point where T1/B1 + B4 will be required. I'm actually even wondering if by the end of 3.0 with the spell speed we'll have, if T1 + B1 + B4 we'll be a necessity. Or switching to thunder 2

I very much doubt it. You would need to save a GCD's worth in 2 casts in ice phase AND get a slow mana tick to do T1+B1+B4.

Thunder 1 over Thunder 2? Gut feeling (with nothing to back it up) is I don't think the extra 1 dot tick will be worth delaying Fire phase by the extra time (especially with enochian), and if you get a thunder proc, chances are you will overwrite the DoT.

Would be interesting to see some math done on Thunder 2 vs Thunder 1, and the math to see if using T1 is worth it if you get a fast mana tick.