Did Yoshi P messed up the relics Im trying to understand the meaning of this help me!

[Violyre]

Wrong, there was vertical too. The problem is that most people outside of Japan started when the level cap was 75, and it stayed that way for years.
The vast majority of lvl 50 gear (The initial cap) was worthless at 60, and the vast majority of lvl 60 gear was worthless at 75.

Yes, I suppose this is true. Though since what, 85% of the game was spent with a 75 cap, I tend to forget.

[KokonoeAiyoko]

I actually agree with the OP here. A lot of people have said "this isn't FFXI", and it isn't, however how many things have they taken from FFXI? A lot of enemies, a lot of moves, a lot of move designs and job trait designs, armor designs, race designs, beastman designs, crafting design, targeting combat design, etc, the list goes on for quite a long way.

Relics are something not just from other MMOPRGs but something from FFXI in particular, obtained via brutally grinding means, to acquire not just a typical dungeon drop or currency exchange item (which FFXI had as well), but something you busted your rear to obtain a ancient piece of equipment that would be usable for an extremely long time because it is not just another "mere weapon" or "mere glamour", but a legendary weapon that is involved with the world and story of the game.

A few months exclusivity doesn't really reward the amount of effort required to obtain such items, and even in their heyday, there were always items very similar in power to them. In FFXI there was a clear difference in a weapon that was Relic and wasn't, I don't think it needs to be a huge difference, however I do think that the effort you have to painstakingly go through to obtain something of this level which literally takes playing the game like it's your real life job should be usable in content for a pretty long time and not just a few months.

Some say "If you can obtain one item like this, why would you do future content"? because there are armor upgrades, because there are new items, new content, and most importantly of all, these weapons were only for a minority of the playerbase. Most people would not finish this weapon line the way it was before, and most people are perfectly fine with never obtaining these weapons as long as they have something that's good enough to get through content they will be satisfied.

I haven't earned a single one, and I even see why it would be a let down. I never even earned one in FFXI either (and trust me I tried).

What is the point of all this effort, all this time spent when they are merely just considered glamours later? It's honestly a smack in the face to those who truly earned these. With as much time and effort you had to spend on these compared to any other content in the game, it truly is.

[Reynhart]

In FFXI there was a clear difference in a weapon that was Relic and wasn't...

In FFXI, relics...were...not...lvl...50...weapons.
Nor were introduced before the first expansion.

Stop comparing the two because they have nothing in common, gameplay wise.

[Velhart]

What is the point of all this effort, all this time spent when they are merely just considered glamours later? It's honestly a smack in the face to those who truly earned these. With as much time and effort you had to spend on these compared to any other content in the game, it truly is.

May I ask how you keep relic relevant in a vertical progression game? It would be dumb if they did not start fresh per expansion pack. Imagine if we are in Version 5.0 and you were doing relic quest steps from Patch 2.0, 3.0, and 4.0. It would be such a major pain that no one newer to the game at the time would take the time to do it at all.

[Reynhart]

It would be such a major pain that no one newer to the game at the time would take the time to do it at all.

Shhh, don't say that, it's exactly what they want !

[karateorangutang]

How in the name of all things final fantasy are we even trying to compare XI relics with XIV relics.

The content was different, required vast amounts of people, vast amounts of currency, and time that is not even within the same galaxy as what the XIV relic costed. I put 10x more time into XI and I never even got close to achieving a relic weapon. Yes somehow I attained a fully upgraded relic in a matter of a few months of casual play on this game....

There is simply no comparison there.

If your mad that you did some work to achieve a weapon that at the time was the best and now it's outdated then your simply playing the wrong genre of game. This is a common theme accross MMO's in general, especially theme park style MMO's.

[Seryl199]

Maybe if the relic chain was actually challenging, there would be some merit to retaining its exclusivity, but it's just a series of grind quests. It was little more than a time sink and a way to populate dungeons and trials. Now, it's a more accessible grind, which means more players are likely to attempt it. It continues to populate dungeons rather than becoming an obsolete quest line that no one attempts any more. Am I upset someone new can wave their Zeta around town? Heck no, they can do what they want in their own time, and if that's completing outdated content, then power to them.

[Lemuria]

In FFXI, relics...were...not...lvl...50...weapons.
Nor were introduced before the first expansion.

Stop comparing the two because they have nothing in common, gameplay wise.

You still didn't exactly refute his argument there. In FFXIV, a relic is just a shiny skin. The only bearing it has on stats is that you can customize the secondaries with all the impact of a squeaky mallet.

May I ask how you keep relic relevant in a vertical progression game?

You do this in two ways. Firstly, you curb the vertical progression. Secondly, you create a weapon that evolves, rather than merely stagnating. The relics in FFXI start at level 75 but eventually become level 99 through upgrades.

The reason people would do it is because the relic would be special, something worth owning. You might have a sword at level 99, but what of the person with the relic sword who deals bonus holy damage on strikes, or that guy adding poison onto targets through mere melee strikes?

The reason no one really cares about XIV relics is that, aside from their appearance, they're boring. They offer you nothing new or unique over existing weapons, just a shiny glow and new bodywork. Give people something to care about, and you'd see a lot more support for future relics.

[Ayerinn]

So the OP expects something that they were able to use as a top tier weapon in then relevant content over the course of two years to take just as long to acquire now for people whose only possible use for it is for glamour? Yeah, sounds like modern MMO's are not for you - maybe you should find some old MMO servers from pre-2005 ish to relive the "glory" days of MMO grind. Have fun.

[karateorangutang]

You do this in two ways. Firstly, you curb the vertical progression. Secondly, you create a weapon that evolves, rather than merely stagnating. The relics in FFXI start at level 75 but eventually become level 99 through upgrades.

The reason people would do it is because the relic would be special, something worth owning. You might have a sword at level 99, but what of the person with the relic sword who deals bonus holy damage on strikes, or that guy adding poison onto targets through mere melee strikes?

The reason no one really cares about XIV relics is that, aside from their appearance, they're boring. They offer you nothing new or unique over existing weapons, just a shiny glow and new bodywork. Give people something to care about, and you'd see a lot more support for future relics.

Ok so lets say they buy your argument, and with 3.1 they introduce a new relic that you'll never need to get again. Except you have to grind out a new instance that requires 36 people with no DF for 2-3 years before you can have it. However, we dont really know what the ilvl will be by that time of the game.... so just know that when you get it we'll design it then or something.

This sort of experience doesn't have an equivalent in this game, because progress is so much faster. Your asking for something that would not only be hard to implement but that would alienate a new customer base. The key to a successful MMO in the current market is keeping all of the player base happy. That includes new players. If you want this MMO to last... then your better be happy SE is thinking about that.

The glory days of XI were more than a decade ago we have an entirely new generation of gamers that have grown up on mobile platforms. Think about them how you will, but they are a primary consumer. Making them happy is a key to success.