Adding Legacy Tattoo to Mog Station

[Fenwick]

Missing a promotion/incentive is not punishment, it is missing a promotion or incentive. Get used to it, it'll happen again in your life.

[Samcaesar]

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While I hate to go on about definitions because half the time this is definitions depend on perspective, but sure let's do that! Punishment - "the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense." Don't buy our game during this specific time? Well sucks to be you, no tattoo for your character. Lack of a tattoo is a penality for players, the offense is not playing the game during 1.x. Punishments can be fair or unfair, considering I highly doubt everyone who didn't play 1.x was going "Screw you SE! You suck and you're not getting a dime from me!".You can't keep someone from something because they didn't know or couldn't do it immediately, that's not only a punishment, it's not a even fair one (e.g. of a fair punishment would be putting the legacy tattoo up on the cash shop for some odd price, making it the reward for a long 1.x themed questline, or perhaps making it available for players who've been subbed for so many days like a veteran's reward).

Making it unavailable for the player for things that are out of their control is a punishment. When you can surmise the whole ordeal as "Sorry, but you will not get this, sucks to be you.", you are punishing people. Let's put up an analogy. Let's say you're a teacher to a preschool, everyone inside at the moment gets a cookie (The tattoo in question), some kids outside are aware about it but can't get inside for whatever reason (IE players who know of it but can't afford the price or time for 1.x) or didn't know about the cookies at all (IE players who don't know of the game). Later in the day all the kids come inside and they hear everyone talking about their cookies in delight, so when they go up to the teacher asking for a cookie, her response is "Sorry kids, you should've been inside". Can you explain to be how that is fair or reasonable to the kids who either didn't know about the cookies or couldn't come inside? Sure you could argue they don't need the cookies, thus making it fine, but in that idea, 1.x players don't need exclusive tattoos either.

Not all promotions are the same thing you know, you can still buy two products for a "buy one get one free", there's nothing preventing you from getting the secondary item with it. There is nothing good about preventing a player from getting something because of some time clause. While I'm not entirely recommending this, the cash shop is an alright alternative, while making it available in game for some long/hard quest line (Maybe a trip down memory lane using the Echo) would be the best solution. Make it so the reward for 1.x is they got the tattoo for free, don't make it a punishment for 2.x and beyond players.

Okay, WoW does a lot of things it doesn't make this sort of stuff okay or reasonable, you can site precedent, but precedent is nothing without reason, which is why you can just say "WoW did it too!".
"I'm sorry, but I'm not sorry, sucks to be you". There's no realistic reason to keep it held back, you're not even a "legacy player" if you have the tattoo, you're just someone who could've spent the bare minimum (Which might've been free from what I've been reading in this thread) to create a characture during 1.x.

Look, I'm sorry people want some weird tattoo that makes you 1.x players feel special (Or feel like they didn't completely waste their time), but it really doesn't mean anything besides creating a character and just prohibits players from having a neat little thing entirely. There's no realistic reason or benefit to keeping it locked to characters created to 1.x only.

[Seig345]

While I hate to go on about definitions because half the time this is definitions depend on perspective, but sure let's do that! Punishment - "the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense." Don't buy our game during this specific time? Well sucks to be you, no tattoo for your character. [...]

So basically, everyone in the world has been punished at one time or another when anyone only offers a limited number of anything, or a limited time offer.

[...] Look, I'm sorry people want some weird tattoo that makes you 1.x players feel special (Or feel like they didn't completely waste their time), but it really doesn't mean anything besides creating a character [...]

Well that's where we keep hitting a snag here; you feel it doesn't mean anything, where as there's plenty of people who feel it means at least something. At the same time, if it's just "some weird tatoo" that "doesn't mean anything besides creating a character", why all this fuss and persistently referring to its limited quality as a punishment?

[Gilraen]

While I hate to go on about definitions because half the time this is definitions depend on perspective, but sure let's do that! Punishment - "the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense."

So by your assertion, anyone who wasn't playing during the convention primal battles where each victory granted a randomly chosen server special earrings are also being punished for having not been playing when said convention was underway. Or that those people who didn't preorder the PS3 version, PS4 version, soundtracks or art book to get the hats and minions are all being punished for missing out. Or heck, the Lightning, Dragon Quest and XI events. Understand, each and every one of these things with rare exception has been advertised in all of Square's official channels. They didn't come out of the blue one day and was gone the next. If you missed out then you had to be making an effort to not stay informed.

I didn't play 1.0 till the Legacy campaign because I was holding out for a PS3 release. But I knew about the Legacy campaign near as soon as it started because I kept up with the game. All it took was a few moments a day to click a bookmarked link to the official site. I didn't have to log in through three different authentication pages or give my mother's maiden name or provide three forms of ID. Click, scroll, done. If there's any kind of punishment taking place here, it's people coming into this thread to read about all the entitlement that's being tossed around under the pretense of being 'punished'.

[Lexia]

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That a horrible example of why people should get the tattoo cause stuff like that happens all the time in all parts of life. If you not there you miss out, say your job is fast food and for that one day everyone that was working at certain time get free food now if you weren't working and come in the next day and find out everyone got free food yesterday doesn't mean you get free food that day. This scenario could be applied to any part of life kids or adults, in the work place or in a game.

[Samcaesar]

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Sure, you're not wrong with that statement, however there is fair punishments and unfair punishments, the latter of which should be avoided when possible. A punishment in which the limited time offer is otherwise entirely unobtainable is unfair, this makes a "Buy one get one free" (A fair punishment) different from a "Throw money at us now, get x, no one else will get it!" (An unfair punishment). To make this a fair punishment all SE has to do is make it available for some kind of effort, like a long questline or for some amount of money on the cash shop.

It really only feels like something because it seems like a majority of players who don't want others to have it absolutely despised playing 1.x, it's that "reward" for "suffering through 1.x" as some players have phrased it. No one made them play 1.x, in fact all you had to do in order to get the legacy status or get the tattoo was pay so much money to SE during this this time frame or just create a character during x time frame. Unless if you're willing to present me a way to go back in time and do just that with them money I've got now, it's a punishment. Which I'm fine taking if it's fair, and unless if you're going to introduce some kind of compromise for players to get it for some kind of effort or price, it's not fair. (And dear god, I'd hope none of you use the "Life's not fair, get over it" crap, that's a horrid idiom not an argument.)

That's the thing, it doesn't mean anything other than you created a character. I've created a character, you've created a character, everyone on the forum has. I'm not going to go stomping around and saying I deserve a 2.x only character tattoo for suffering through 2.x, and neither should 1.x players for their troubles. I personally don't care for the thing, I think it looks pretty ugly if I'm going to be honest, but I've seen some players who are from 2.x and beyond who want it and some players who are from 1.x and are fine sharing it, hence my personal reasons for the "fuss and ..."

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Uh, if your boss is handing out food whenever you weren't working your shift, and won't bother doing it again, your boss is being a jerk. You work all the same, why on earth shouldn't you get it? Because you weren't lucky or something?

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Yeah sure, I mean, it's kinda bizarre to base rewards like that on RNG, it's a game where folks are playing money, they shouldn't have to be lucky in order to get some weird trinket. Heck, I preordered heavensward for example, darn right do I think people are being punished for missing out on the ability to get those minor preorder bonuses like the baron's helmet, it's silly to limit players 100% from getting something because they either lacked the funds or whatever at the current time. Like.. I'm sorry I didn't really know how much I'd actually like final fantasy as a series up into very recently? Unwilling Ignorance shouldn't be unfairly punished.

Cool story, I basically wasn't interested in final fantasy at all til November 2014 due to not ever playing any of the games due to money issues or whatever. It sure as heck isn't my fault for not being aware of how much my future self would've enjoyed this game and the series.

By the way, entitlement doesn't really mean anything any more because of how frequent the phrase is being thrown around, such as right now. 1.x players are being entitled because they think they deserve unique stuff for making literally spending the bare minimum amount of money and time in order to get some weird tattoo! See I can do it too.

[Ryel]

While I hate to go on about definitions because half the time this is definitions depend on perspective, but sure let's do that! Punishment - "the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense." Don't buy our game during this specific time? Well sucks to be you, no tattoo for your character. Lack of a tattoo is a penality for players, the offense is not playing the game during 1.x. Punishments can be fair or unfair, considering I highly doubt everyone who didn't play 1.x was going "Screw you SE! You suck and you're not getting a dime from me!".You can't keep someone from something because they didn't know or couldn't do it immediately, that's not only a punishment, it's not a even fair one (e.g. of a fair punishment would be putting the legacy tattoo up on the cash shop for some odd price, making it the reward for a long 1.x themed questline, or perhaps making it available for players who've been subbed for so many days like a veteran's reward).

Still not a punishment, in fact it's how limited one-time events work and are common practice.

Were you around for the event?

If Yes: Collect reward.
If No: Reward is no longer available.

Making it unavailable for the player for things that are out of their control is a punishment. When you can surmise the whole ordeal as "Sorry, but you will not get this, sucks to be you.", you are punishing people. Let's put up an analogy. Let's say you're a teacher to a preschool, everyone inside at the moment gets a cookie (The tattoo in question), some kids outside are aware about it but can't get inside for whatever reason (IE players who know of it but can't afford the price or time for 1.x) or didn't know about the cookies at all (IE players who don't know of the game). Later in the day all the kids come inside and they hear everyone talking about their cookies in delight, so when they go up to the teacher asking for a cookie, her response is "Sorry kids, you should've been inside". Can you explain to be how that is fair or reasonable to the kids who either didn't know about the cookies or couldn't come inside? Sure you could argue they don't need the cookies, thus making it fine, but in that idea, 1.x players don't need exclusive tattoos either.

This is a terrible analogy for you to use as it further emphasizes my point and not yours. Especially because that particular scenario happens all the time and makes for a good life lesson:

If a teacher decided to hand out cookies to their class for students who showed up on time or as a reward for good student attendance and a student comes into class halfway through the lesson and misses the opportunity to receive a cookie because there aren't any left, it just is what it is, regardless of if they knew cookies were going to be handed out or not. Maybe they had car trouble or missed the bus, maybe they were sick or overslept, or maybe they had to go to the doctor w/e the reason they missed the period of time the cookies were given out, these things happen.

Not all promotions are the same thing you know, you can still buy two products for a "buy one get one free", there's nothing preventing you from getting the secondary item with it. There is nothing good about preventing a player from getting something because of some time clause. While I'm not entirely recommending this, the cash shop is an alright alternative, while making it available in game for some long/hard quest line (Maybe a trip down memory lane using the Echo) would be the best solution. Make it so the reward for 1.x is they got the tattoo for free, don't make it a punishment for 2.x and beyond players.

Still not a punishment: See above.

Okay, WoW does a lot of things it doesn't make this sort of stuff okay or reasonable, you can site precedent, but precedent is nothing without reason, which is why you can just say "WoW did it too!".
"I'm sorry, but I'm not sorry, sucks to be you". There's no realistic reason to keep it held back, you're not even a "legacy player" if you have the tattoo, you're just someone who could've spent the bare minimum (Which might've been free from what I've been reading in this thread) to create a characture during 1.x.

I gave two examples from WoW but the truth is that when it concerns video games or any other sold product there are literally thousands if not millions of limited time offers that have expired or are no longer available, many of which i personally am not eligible for because i wasn't even born during the period of their promotions this does not mean that because i now buy products from some of these companies that i am entitled to those limited time rewards from before.

Look, I'm sorry people want some weird tattoo that makes you 1.x players feel special (Or feel like they didn't completely waste their time), but it really doesn't mean anything besides creating a character and just prohibits players from having a neat little thing entirely. There's no realistic reason or benefit to keeping it locked to characters created to 1.x only.

The only ones repeating this "special snowflake" argument are the ones who are demanding that they place it in the cash shop while simultaneously trying to claim that it "doesn't have any special meaning", almost all of the people who have given reasons as to why it shouldn't be made available have said so for the same reason that the producer/director and the development staff have given.

It was a limited time event offer that should remain that way, a token of appreciation by the development staff during a period of the game where the company was having a rough time and a thank you to the players that stuck with it. If you were there, you got it. If not, oh well.

[Seig345]

The cookie analogy is a poor one at best as well, given the cookie was considered an unevenly applied reward with no other meaning behind it except "yum, tasty". The tattoo was not a Legacy Campaign perk, merely something only given to characters (not accounts, not players, just characters) that existed prior to the transfer to the new server structure and A Realm Reborn. This was more or less the "everybody" tier of a token of apology for those who purchased a game in good faith and receiving something so broken that SE deemed it necessary to publicly apologize and suspend billing for over a year. Dear little Jimmy and Susan and their attendance cookies don't quite measure up, setting aside the part where cookies are freely available through other methods.

[...] but I've seen some players who are from 2.x and beyond who want it and some players who are from 1.x and are fine sharing it, hence my personal reasons for the "fuss and ..."

There's also plenty of players from 2.x and beyond who want it but are fine with not having it and understand why they don't, and plenty from 1.x who feel like it would be belittling the meaning behind the token, however "ugly" or "small". I won't use the "life isn't fair", because in the end the idea that it's a punishment is a subjective one. You may as well declare that everyone deserves to have everything. "What's that? a priceless one-of-a-kind painting? How dare you! You better make enough for everyone!"

[Gilraen]

You are still bashing every other time-sensitive reward that's followed as every bit the 'punishment' for having missed it as the Legacy campaign. What should Square do, then? Leave every event NPC and quest running indefinitely until the servers shut down? Could you even call it an event, then? The Legacy campaign was an event, something to spur players to come back and help fund the revival of XIV the following year. It wasn't some exclusive deal just for those who'd been playing 1.0 prior, I know I sure hadn't. And like every other event in the game, it was a limited time offer. All you had to do to know about it was care about the game.

[Lexia]

Uh, if your boss is handing out food whenever you weren't working your shift, and won't bother doing it again, your boss is being a jerk. You work all the same, why on earth shouldn't you get it? Because you weren't lucky or something?

That whole scenario thing went right over you head.