Adding Legacy Tattoo to Mog Station

[Ryel]

Most people in this thread are ignoring that people would have paid for it, but either couldn't for things outside of their control (Maybe they wanted to but an emergency came up for example) or just literally didn't know about it. I fail to see how it's their fault and then should be punished for it, it's silly to limit things forever by a "limited time offer", because it ultimately punishes players for things out of their control. Really imho, SE should put it on the cash shop til lets say 4.0, they could still keep it there, but by 4.0 they should also add a quest in game that will allow the player to achieve the tattoo. You 1.x players get your tattoo for another year and a half and get to feel special for longer because you got it for free and for being there during 1.x, new players who want it and can't wait can spend their money on it, and new players who can wait can sit around and then do some weird quest to "actually experience 1.x"'s events through the power of the echo or something

I think you and many others need to look up the definition of the word "punishment".

Limited time offers are not punishments, they are incentives or promotions in order to encourage consumer participation. In some cases (like this one) they can also be given out in order to reward consumer loyalty during a rough time of business as a sign of recognition or to celebrate a specific period in the companies history, in some cases they're just done because the company felt like it.

Nearly every business that sells a product has used limited time offers in some degree, from "buy one get one free" to getting a free T-shirt or other memorabilia for various reasons. In the case of MMOs (like this one) many have done one-time seasonal or contextual event rewards, and a large number of games even offer things like pre-order rewards based on retailer.

Even WoW has done this multiple times with things like pets and mounts: Removed mounts

people really need to stop acting like this is some targeted punishment, because it's not.

I'm sorry you missed time period when the legacy tattoo was made available, but it has specific meaning to a period of the game that is long over. There is no realistic reason or benefit to bringing it back, especially when it was specifically stated by the producer/director that it would not be.

[Samcaesar]

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While I hate to go on about definitions because half the time this is definitions depend on perspective, but sure let's do that! Punishment - "the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense." Don't buy our game during this specific time? Well sucks to be you, no tattoo for your character. Lack of a tattoo is a penality for players, the offense is not playing the game during 1.x. Punishments can be fair or unfair, considering I highly doubt everyone who didn't play 1.x was going "Screw you SE! You suck and you're not getting a dime from me!".You can't keep someone from something because they didn't know or couldn't do it immediately, that's not only a punishment, it's not a even fair one (e.g. of a fair punishment would be putting the legacy tattoo up on the cash shop for some odd price, making it the reward for a long 1.x themed questline, or perhaps making it available for players who've been subbed for so many days like a veteran's reward).

Making it unavailable for the player for things that are out of their control is a punishment. When you can surmise the whole ordeal as "Sorry, but you will not get this, sucks to be you.", you are punishing people. Let's put up an analogy. Let's say you're a teacher to a preschool, everyone inside at the moment gets a cookie (The tattoo in question), some kids outside are aware about it but can't get inside for whatever reason (IE players who know of it but can't afford the price or time for 1.x) or didn't know about the cookies at all (IE players who don't know of the game). Later in the day all the kids come inside and they hear everyone talking about their cookies in delight, so when they go up to the teacher asking for a cookie, her response is "Sorry kids, you should've been inside". Can you explain to be how that is fair or reasonable to the kids who either didn't know about the cookies or couldn't come inside? Sure you could argue they don't need the cookies, thus making it fine, but in that idea, 1.x players don't need exclusive tattoos either.

Not all promotions are the same thing you know, you can still buy two products for a "buy one get one free", there's nothing preventing you from getting the secondary item with it. There is nothing good about preventing a player from getting something because of some time clause. While I'm not entirely recommending this, the cash shop is an alright alternative, while making it available in game for some long/hard quest line (Maybe a trip down memory lane using the Echo) would be the best solution. Make it so the reward for 1.x is they got the tattoo for free, don't make it a punishment for 2.x and beyond players.

Okay, WoW does a lot of things it doesn't make this sort of stuff okay or reasonable, you can site precedent, but precedent is nothing without reason, which is why you can just say "WoW did it too!".
"I'm sorry, but I'm not sorry, sucks to be you". There's no realistic reason to keep it held back, you're not even a "legacy player" if you have the tattoo, you're just someone who could've spent the bare minimum (Which might've been free from what I've been reading in this thread) to create a characture during 1.x.

Look, I'm sorry people want some weird tattoo that makes you 1.x players feel special (Or feel like they didn't completely waste their time), but it really doesn't mean anything besides creating a character and just prohibits players from having a neat little thing entirely. There's no realistic reason or benefit to keeping it locked to characters created to 1.x only.

[Seig345]

While I hate to go on about definitions because half the time this is definitions depend on perspective, but sure let's do that! Punishment - "the infliction or imposition of a penalty as retribution for an offense." Don't buy our game during this specific time? Well sucks to be you, no tattoo for your character. [...]

So basically, everyone in the world has been punished at one time or another when anyone only offers a limited number of anything, or a limited time offer.

[...] Look, I'm sorry people want some weird tattoo that makes you 1.x players feel special (Or feel like they didn't completely waste their time), but it really doesn't mean anything besides creating a character [...]

Well that's where we keep hitting a snag here; you feel it doesn't mean anything, where as there's plenty of people who feel it means at least something. At the same time, if it's just "some weird tatoo" that "doesn't mean anything besides creating a character", why all this fuss and persistently referring to its limited quality as a punishment?

[Samcaesar]

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Sure, you're not wrong with that statement, however there is fair punishments and unfair punishments, the latter of which should be avoided when possible. A punishment in which the limited time offer is otherwise entirely unobtainable is unfair, this makes a "Buy one get one free" (A fair punishment) different from a "Throw money at us now, get x, no one else will get it!" (An unfair punishment). To make this a fair punishment all SE has to do is make it available for some kind of effort, like a long questline or for some amount of money on the cash shop.

It really only feels like something because it seems like a majority of players who don't want others to have it absolutely despised playing 1.x, it's that "reward" for "suffering through 1.x" as some players have phrased it. No one made them play 1.x, in fact all you had to do in order to get the legacy status or get the tattoo was pay so much money to SE during this this time frame or just create a character during x time frame. Unless if you're willing to present me a way to go back in time and do just that with them money I've got now, it's a punishment. Which I'm fine taking if it's fair, and unless if you're going to introduce some kind of compromise for players to get it for some kind of effort or price, it's not fair. (And dear god, I'd hope none of you use the "Life's not fair, get over it" crap, that's a horrid idiom not an argument.)

That's the thing, it doesn't mean anything other than you created a character. I've created a character, you've created a character, everyone on the forum has. I'm not going to go stomping around and saying I deserve a 2.x only character tattoo for suffering through 2.x, and neither should 1.x players for their troubles. I personally don't care for the thing, I think it looks pretty ugly if I'm going to be honest, but I've seen some players who are from 2.x and beyond who want it and some players who are from 1.x and are fine sharing it, hence my personal reasons for the "fuss and ..."

Snip

Uh, if your boss is handing out food whenever you weren't working your shift, and won't bother doing it again, your boss is being a jerk. You work all the same, why on earth shouldn't you get it? Because you weren't lucky or something?

Snip

Yeah sure, I mean, it's kinda bizarre to base rewards like that on RNG, it's a game where folks are playing money, they shouldn't have to be lucky in order to get some weird trinket. Heck, I preordered heavensward for example, darn right do I think people are being punished for missing out on the ability to get those minor preorder bonuses like the baron's helmet, it's silly to limit players 100% from getting something because they either lacked the funds or whatever at the current time. Like.. I'm sorry I didn't really know how much I'd actually like final fantasy as a series up into very recently? Unwilling Ignorance shouldn't be unfairly punished.

Cool story, I basically wasn't interested in final fantasy at all til November 2014 due to not ever playing any of the games due to money issues or whatever. It sure as heck isn't my fault for not being aware of how much my future self would've enjoyed this game and the series.

By the way, entitlement doesn't really mean anything any more because of how frequent the phrase is being thrown around, such as right now. 1.x players are being entitled because they think they deserve unique stuff for making literally spending the bare minimum amount of money and time in order to get some weird tattoo! See I can do it too.

[Seig345]

The cookie analogy is a poor one at best as well, given the cookie was considered an unevenly applied reward with no other meaning behind it except "yum, tasty". The tattoo was not a Legacy Campaign perk, merely something only given to characters (not accounts, not players, just characters) that existed prior to the transfer to the new server structure and A Realm Reborn. This was more or less the "everybody" tier of a token of apology for those who purchased a game in good faith and receiving something so broken that SE deemed it necessary to publicly apologize and suspend billing for over a year. Dear little Jimmy and Susan and their attendance cookies don't quite measure up, setting aside the part where cookies are freely available through other methods.

[...] but I've seen some players who are from 2.x and beyond who want it and some players who are from 1.x and are fine sharing it, hence my personal reasons for the "fuss and ..."

There's also plenty of players from 2.x and beyond who want it but are fine with not having it and understand why they don't, and plenty from 1.x who feel like it would be belittling the meaning behind the token, however "ugly" or "small". I won't use the "life isn't fair", because in the end the idea that it's a punishment is a subjective one. You may as well declare that everyone deserves to have everything. "What's that? a priceless one-of-a-kind painting? How dare you! You better make enough for everyone!"

[Lexia]

Uh, if your boss is handing out food whenever you weren't working your shift, and won't bother doing it again, your boss is being a jerk. You work all the same, why on earth shouldn't you get it? Because you weren't lucky or something?

That whole scenario thing went right over you head.

[Samcaesar]

I'm bowing out of this conversation, this was sticking my hand in a hornet's nest of bad faith arguments and people ignoring the fact that the tattoo required absolutely nothing besides install time + the time to create a character, and I don't really care to put more attention to it. I had a long reply and all but there's basically no point in continuing this, because people are far too defensive over the idea of making some kind of way for new players to get the tattoo. Plus jeez, debating against 4 different people is a pain in the <kupo!>.

Have fun feeling special by having tattoo that took basically nothing to earn and preventing other players from having it.

[Ryel]

I'm bowing out of this conversation, this was sticking my hand in a hornet's nest of bad faith arguments and people ignoring the fact that the tattoo required absolutely nothing besides install time + the time to create a character, and I don't really care to put more attention to it. I had a long reply and all but there's basically no point in continuing this, because people are far too defensive over the idea of making some kind of way for new players to get the tattoo. Plus jeez, debating against 4 different people is a pain in the <kupo!>.

I'm sorry you feel that way about how businesses conduct limited time events, I hope that you are able to participate in all future promotions that you are eligible for.

Have fun feeling special by having tattoo that took basically nothing to earn and preventing other players from having it.

Not a single person who has responded to any of your arguments no matter how hostile they came across has used those words or implied their meaning in any fashion, but if that is what you wish to believe you are free to do so.

[Titor]

I'm bowing out of this conversation, this was sticking my hand in a hornet's nest.

You fought the good fight my friend. Do not get discouraged. Perhaps one day we will be able to break though the rampant elitism and entitlement that those more fortunate to both know about and have the money to pay for 1.0 have. Some day we will be able to be seen as equal supporters of this game we both know, play, and support. The tattoo and legacy items just make a schism in this community. I had not thought it to be the case before these threads, but honestly I am appalled.

It would be one thing it players were politely against it, but they are acting like small children being asked to share a toy and throwing a tantrum

[Violyre]

Yeah sure, I mean, it's kinda bizarre to base rewards like that on RNG, it's a game where folks are playing money, they shouldn't have to be lucky in order to get some weird trinket. Heck, I preordered heavensward for example, darn right do I think people are being punished for missing out on the ability to get those minor preorder bonuses like the baron's helmet, it's silly to limit players 100% from getting something because they either lacked the funds or whatever at the current time.

Work in a grocery store. You'll learn.

Customer: What do you mean you can't give me the sale price today!? You probably had this same package out there yesterday so I want it for what it was yesterday!

Or how about a game store?

Customer: Give me a poster! I know I didn't preorder this but I should get it because you have one back there and no one's come in for it yet!

I can't even see how you justify this as "punishment." It's called "exclusive." You bought the Collector's Edition for Heavensward because you wanted that fancy little dragon, didn't you? What about the people who couldn't afford it? Would you send your dragon to them so they're not "punished?"

Have fun feeling special by having tattoo that took basically nothing to earn and preventing other players from having it.

Don't tell me what to do with my tattoo that would be hidden away by clothes most of the time even if I did have it on.