If Paladin is "specialized in defense" shouldn't its defense be better always?

[Anger]

My analysis is wrong because?

That isn't how it works, Phoenicia. You posted some numbers regarding mitigation but you haven't posted any broken down mathematics for DPS. You have yet to show how or where you established the "less than 5%" difference between PLD and WAR.

In order for this to be acceptable evidence it has to be supported by proof and math that is broken down.

So no, you haven't proven your case. You've only made statements with percentages. Anyone can do that.

The burden of proof is on you because you've made an actual percentage claim so now please show me how you arrived at this percentage with broken down long form mathematics.

I will not "leave" as you requested. I will fight for the balance I expect.

[Phoenicia]

That isn't how it works, Phoenicia. You posted some numbers regarding mitigation but you haven't posted any broken down mathematics for DPS. You have yet to show how or where you established the "less than 5%" difference between PLD and WAR.

In order for this to be acceptable evidence it has to be supported by proof and math that is broken down.

So no, you haven't proven your case. You've only made statements with percentages. Anyone can do that.

The burden of proof is on you because you've made an actual percentage claim so now please show me how you arrived at this percentage with broken down long form mathematics.

I will not "leave" as you requested. I will fight for the balance I expect.

No the proof burden isn't on me as I have already provided a video of a PLD doing only 70 DPS less than WAR. I have also provided analysis of PLD mitigating "Magical damage" more than DRK. My case is "proven". Yours isn't. Again, here are my proves:

Mitigation Analysis

Dummy DPS.

A3S PLD vs WAR DPS; In this video the PLD is MAIN TANKING!

Also if you want, you can try to emulate the potency per minute of the three tank classes. You will see that actually PLD wins. lol

The Balance "you" expect is not balance at all. It is just what "you want". PLD already has a VERY superior defensive advantage. Stop crying because you're not the pampered princess MT of choice anymore.

[Anger]

.

The Paladin in the real-world video is benefiting from a slashing debuff and is receiving goad from the ninja. That proves nothing.

Grab a Paladin buddy and have them go into Shield Oath and you into Defiance or Grit and go to town.

Here's my proof and is more accurate as there's no goad and the two tanks are often on separate mobs.

The PLD Ends up in the 489 range with the WAR in 700+.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYNKYztM27g

Here's an A3S video without a Ninja proving goad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2If0sgTJzFQ

The conclusion of the fight shows the Warrior at 744 dps and the Paladin at 612. That is 19.469% difference - almost a 20% lead. The Paladin is also stance dancing frequently.

between V1 = 744 and V2 = 612

( | V1 - V2 | / ((V1 + V2)/2) ) * 100

= ( | 744 - 612 | / ((744 + 612)/2) ) * 100
= ( | 132 | / (1356/2) ) * 100
= ( 132 / 678 ) * 100
= 0.19469 * 100

= 19.469% difference

[SpookyGhost]

Here's my proof and is more accurate as there's no goad and the two tanks are often on separate mobs.

The PLD Ends up in the 489 range with the WAR in 700+.

Did you just seriously link an A2S video? You did. You linked an A2S video.

[Anger]

Did you just seriously link an A2S video? You did. You linked an A2S video.

I also linked an A3S video.

[Anger]

Did you just seriously link an A2S video? You did. You linked an A2S video.

Here's an A1S video with the Paladin at 442 and the Warrior at 633. This is a 35% difference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6DwKeAkKX0

between V1 = 442 and V2 = 633

( | V1 - V2 | / ((V1 + V2)/2) ) * 100

= ( | 442 - 633 | / ((442 + 633)/2) ) * 100
= ( | -191 | / (1075/2) ) * 100
= ( 191 / 537.5 ) * 100
= 0.355349 * 100

= 35.5349% difference

[RiisWolf]

instead of looking at their skills, shouldn't we look at their shield? PLD should be prepared to defend themselves from magic, and the shield would be their answer. they don't need more damage, but should be capable of fully defending themselves. not being able to block magic is just silly.

for WAR, downgrade their armor to share with DRG, bump up base hp, add a parry buff in tank stance and they'll be fine, if a bit heal hungry. DK's are alright, but could use help with their sustain that doesn't rely on them main tanking.

i think the equipment used should reflect their abilities a bit better, rather than arguing over a second here and there in their kits. with this, PLD can handle magic damage. this opens up the healer to throw out a damage skill or 2 to offset the dps lost. WAR, has a larger pool for getting hit but requires more babysitting while putting out more dps. and DRK can be the happy medium.

had to clear 2/3 of what i wanted to say, so this may a little butchered.

Ah yes, the shield which the PLDs are too uncoordinated and stab happy to hold up at all times. They need to do more with it, like a barrier, cleave(AoE), or magic. Instead of this meh thing that RNG don't want to use more than half of the time.

For WAR. No, just no. They already have a parry buff with tank stance and nerfing only them doesn't fix anything.

And the problem is in fact the skills and passives.

And without Clemency, PLDs need more babysitting than both the DRK and WAR. Clemency is interruptible! (Self) Healing goes a very long way. And having inept AoE damage makes this a lot worse, because less damage=more work for everyone. And having Defenses similar in effectiveness as others isn't going to do at all, when the others can pull threat better AND also make fights end faster. DRK would be riding the same boat as PLD because their defenses are very similar, but they attack groups, evade, blind and lifesteal AoE at 56 but at a huge cost. As for WAR, they specialize in high HP and self healing, while being trusted to deal heavy damage. Most importantly, unlike the other two, WAR doesn't rely on RNG or long CDs to save themselves from a tankbuster at all, because they're the only ones with ACTIVE MITIGATION (that's effective unlike sheltron).

And sheltron is weak. Mildly reducing damage from one attack in a multihit tank buster is not my idea of effective and it must be physical. PLD's needs buffing.

[Anger]

Here is another A1S video proving that in the same fight both tanks can mitigate the same damage but one is substantially higher in DPS.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSVGr_TYDL8

PLD 371 and War 541 is a 37% difference.

between V1 = 371 and V2 = 541

( | V1 - V2 | / ((V1 + V2)/2) ) * 100

= ( | 371 - 541 | / ((371 + 541)/2) ) * 100
= ( | -170 | / (912/2) ) * 100
= ( 170 / 456 ) * 100
= 0.372807 * 100

= 37.2807% difference

[Phoenicia]

The Paladin in the real-world video is benefiting from a slashing debuff and is receiving goad from the ninja. That proves nothing.

Okay, that's not how it works.

You see, by the end of my video, the WAR did 800 DPS, the PLD did 730. You linked a video of a group where the WAR did 100 DPS less than the WAR in my video and the PLD did 130 less. What you proved here is a group on Sargatanas have worse DPS than the Spriggan's Army. A bad video.

What you need to do to prove me wrong is link a video of a WAR in the same gear (ilv200 weapon average ilv193) in A3S doing over 830 DPS while main tanking to prove that WAR can do over 100 DPS more than PLD.

That's how proof works. Not linking a video of bads. Not linking a video of intentionally handicapping a PLD to prove that it does less DPS? Otherwise, I'll record a video of my WAR with leveling gear doing SP only and never using Fell Cleave and post it here as "evidence" WAR does not do DPS.

On a second thought, I will not take you seriously anymore. You linked A2S lol.

Let's compare SMN AoE DPS to NIN, shall we?

EDIT: Your A1S video is of a PLD never leaving Shield Oath vs a WAR who went into Deliverance a lot. Again, should I post a video of my ilv160 axe WAR and ilv148 gear and say the class's DPS is poop?

EDIT 2: I watched your A2S for funzies. How do you find these videos of such baddies? Are you intentionally looking for the worst examples possible? WAR doing 800 DPS in that fight is blasphemy! Lol.... I have videos of WARs doing over 1020 from 3 weeks ago (ilv190 weapon).

[SpookyGhost]

A2S: Literally an AOE fight, of course PLD is going to be lower than WAR lol

A3S: A3S is actually skewed in WAR's favor due to adds in the tornado phase (Decimate, IB, etc.) and the high amount of up-time in the final phase. If you look at the parse Pho posted with Goad/TA/etc., PLD's DPS is much higher. Also the last phase is heavy on RNG, if you get +/- you're losing GCDs. If you rewatch the video you posted, you can also see the PLD gets slammed into the electric water at one point.

A1S: Seperate bosses, bad players, PLD can spend 99% of that fight in SwO as well as Hallowed the 2nd Plasma and allow for more healer DPS. With a NIN on the PLD's Oppressor and with proper SwO usage, the PLD would be a lot higher.