AST, Underpowered?, Potential changes, and you.

[Bhuni]

If 20 potency is that big of deal, AST does have the option to cross-class Cure from WHM.

It really isn't else you'd see AST's using Cure and not Benefic, the Benefic II proc is kinda garbage so there's nothing stopping folk.

[Mclyde]

Noct's problem isn't the potencies, it's the fact they don't get the SCH crit modifier. Even as SCH it's horribly inefficient to just sit there and cast a bunch of adlos, but when you get it to crit it becomes extremely effective. Noct has all the mana inefficiency with none of the payout from crits.

Yea cause it's an instant cast. Noctural is an assistance stance for a Whm or Astro diurn co-healer.
When a target takes a lot of damage you can heal+shield him instantaneously allowing the main healer to finish his big heal cast. It's great when Essential dignity is not up.

And there aren't that much mp issues since you don't use Aspected Helios often in Noctural stance. Only to prevent a hard mechanic like a lot of aoe or an unavoidable boss skill.
In Diurnal you have to refresh your team regen every 30 sec.

[Akyio]

Asp. Benefic instant cast sounds nice on the paper, but when you get in a real fight you realize that it's not that very usable, plus its not really gonna save many people as it's not spammable(shield waste) and limited to global cooldown.

I would much rather have a short 1-1.5 second cast time on it with bare potency increase from 500 to 575~ and a chance to crit, but maybe then not double the crit but 150% the crit.

[Eudyptes]

Well, this is on top of the fact that they don't have the healing potency to match up with even Diurnal Sect.

True. With the crit multiplier A.Bene would be almost identical potencies though. I think noct is like 3 pot less if my math is right. A.Helios is pretty far behind still though. Maybe they could increase the base healing of A.Helios while in noct like A.Bene does. SE really backed themselves into a corner with designing AST like this though.

[SuzakuCMX]

True. With the crit multiplier A.Bene would be almost identical potencies though. I think noct is like 3 pot less if my math is right. A.Helios is pretty far behind still though. Maybe they could increase the base healing of A.Helios while in noct like A.Bene does. SE really backed themselves into a corner with designing AST like this though.

That still wouldn't work, because by casting Aspected Benefic you are replacing a Benefic cast guaranteed to heal double a normal Benefic over the duration in Diurnal (790 total), vs. trying to get a crit shield isn't guaranteed and can't be relied on.

AST just flat out needs changes to their oGCD skills to measure up and be balanced between sects.

They could at least make Aspected Benefic better though. Maybe if it healed for 180 and shielded for double that? That's 189 + 378 or 567 total potency. It's still weaker than Adloqiuim in total potency but better as a shield by 78 potency and over 100 more potency as a shield than what it currently provides. That makes Nocturnal much better at proactive healing via shielding, and it would still be strong without having to copy SCH's double on crit effect.

We'll have to see what SE does to CU and CO though and see if those might make Nocturnal better as well.

[CGMidlander]

Succor is 150. Aspected Helios is 147 in Nocturnal. They even have the exact same mana cost at 60 and the same range. The difference is 3 potency and Aspected Helios takes .5 sec longer to cast.



Benefic II is .82 Potency per Mana. Aspected Benefic is .74 potency per mana. The only situation to use Aspected Benefic is if your tank is going to get one-shot before Benefic II will finish casting or from full HP.

.5 seconds is very noticeable
I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be a standard 2.5 like most gcd skills

[SuzakuCMX]

.5 seconds is very noticeable
I don't see any reason why it shouldn't be a standard 2.5 like most gcd skills

Me neither. I assume it's because it's closerish to 2.5 seconds while in Diurnal Stance. They really didn't try very hard to make Nocturnal close to SCH in efficiency while Diurnal is much closer to WHM in efficiency in terms of base abilities.

[Crater]

They could at least make Aspected Benefic better though. Maybe if it healed for 180 and shielded for double that? That's 189 + 378 or 567 total potency. It's still weaker than Adloqiuim in total potency but better as a shield by 78 potency and over 100 more potency as a shield than what it currently provides. That makes Nocturnal much better at proactive healing via shielding, and it would still be strong without having to copy SCH's double on crit effect.

Something along these lines is the way to go with it. The reason that Adloquium (and Succor, for that matter) work on Scholar is because Scholar's base class is DPS, which means that all of their GCD-based heals except Physick had to come from their original five Job skills, which means that Adloquium and Succor need to wear a lot of hats.

Adloquium isn't just the skill that Scholars use before a pull or when they know a big hit is incoming - it's also what they use when they need to pack as much on-GCD healing in as possible. It's their Cure II.
Astrologian doesn't have that problem. They've already got Benefic II, for when they just need Big GCD Heals. The only time that it's appropriate for an Astrologian to use Nocturnal Benefic is when their goal is not to actually "heal" someone, but to extend their HP with a shield.

Personally, I'd suggest that (Nocturnal) Aspected Benefic be a 125 potency heal, but apply a shield worth three times the amount healed. That doesn't change the overall potency from 500 (125+375), and the substantially increased (75 potency) shield over a non-Crit Adloquium is balanced out by an even more substantially lower heal (175 potency lower than the Adlo heal), reflecting the more specialized nature of the skill.
For similar reasons, I think that Nocturnal Helios should be a 100 potency heal, and apply a 200 potency shield.

[Eudyptes]

That still wouldn't work, because by casting Aspected Benefic you are replacing a Benefic cast guaranteed to heal double a normal Benefic over the duration in Diurnal (790 total), vs. trying to get a crit shield isn't guaranteed and can't be relied on.

Well, Diurnal and Noct don't have to be exactly identical for A.Bene and A.Helios potencies. Noct needs a boost, but it's fine if diurnal ends up doing more considering most of the healing is done through HoTs. Noct is instantaneous and less prone to overhealing. Choosing less potency on non-crits with a higher potency on crits vs a consistant in between potency seems about right to me personally.

CDs in general need a massive reworking, though there is a limit to how much they can do.

[SuzakuCMX]

*snip*

I agree on that, but I'd like to see how CO and CU get changed for the different Sects before I decide whether or not Noct is using close to as-is. One of the largest problems currently is that they are missing functionality on 2 CDs (Time Dilation and Collective Unconscious) vs. Diurnal.