YoshiP stated that MMOs are trending toward F2P

[Bishop81]

You mean the same tactic every successful P2P MMO has used?

Kind of my point isn't it.

Difference between F2P and P2P games.
P2P games = all are equal.
F2P games = those who pay will always be infront of you, no matter how much time you spend in game.
Also much more developers time go into creating cash shop content instead of valuable ingame content.

There are a few exceptions, but these games are usually mobas and stuff, not huge MMOs.

Sorry but I don't play games to grind for 1000 hours to be somehow close to wallet warriors.
If FFXIV ever goes F2P, I am gone and I am taking my friends with me.
If that happened you really couldn't expect the same patches pace as now, or maybe yes, but half of the patches would go into cash shop.

All are equal? Those with the time to grind up their gear, crafting, and gathering are equal to those that don't?

You pay for it. You pay for it with "time" in a sub MMO - hey, they charge by the month; so not only are you losing RL money to the sub, you are losing RL time.

Developers like YoshiP and Blizzard attempt to ease this somewhat by "resetting" gear every patch and expansion, so you can "catch up" easily. However it also devalues the effort you put in - it will just be obsolete in a few months anyway, why bother?

[The_Last_Dragoon]

I like the current flow of content coming from the FFXIV team, and I wouldn't want to mess with any formulas that could potentially tip the flow of that content out of balance. The way I see it, most F2P models revolve around gaining a large number of new customers for short amounts of time, which is why the options where you can pay for stuff is either timed where they expire, put in a gambling system, or is a service where you're literally paying them to take away hours of your play time away from you. Then of course, there's the gated inventories or character slots (Which technically we have through retainers, but the whole argument of "do you really need that much space" is for another thread). Subscription based models though keep both the in-game currency and value of end-game items from either dropping like stones or inflating endlessly. In this way, items like the gear upgrades found in Alexander Savage give a much more profound sense of achievement if you had to work for getting ready for it than if you could just buy item level 200 gear from the mog station and be ready to run Savage right after you hit 60. Granted, items do inflate, such as some of the crafter vanity gear, but that is because of their high demand and low stock. These items are rising naturally due to their difficulty to make and the fact that players are fully willing to dump millions of gil on them.

Subscription based models encourage the developers to create a constant stream of content where as F2P models revolve around creating new cash shop items. Imagine if they put all of the primal mounts into the cash shop instead of having them drop from Primal Extremes. Heck, you don't really even have to since they did it with Urth's Fount and Sleipnir. There was an outrage, because players want to actually play the game in order to get their items instead of just buying it casually with real money. I'm not worried though, especially since FFXI is still subscription based.

[Savagelf]

http://www.pcgamesn.com/final-fantas...ations-of-fans i check gamescorn and this interview there is no mention desire to go to ftp. has op posted anything else

[Justsomeguy]

Just been...breezing around this thread.

I want to know what ass backwards F2P mmos you all are playing. I've seen a handful of f2p mmos that let the player buy gear in their cash shops, and guess what? They die. Really, really, fast. I'll be honest, I've spent way more time (and money) on F2Ps than I ever had on P2Ps, (barring XI from all this) and there are some more broken elements to cash shops, yes, but developers have long since realized that people do not enjoy p2w; creating one nowadays will easily spell death for a game. No matter how good it is.

I just don't get it. Do the people running around crying F2P is P2W really get what the items in said F2P cash shops even mean/do to the game and their economy? Or do they just see something and cry wolf?

Besides even if XIV went F2P (which it probably won't for a very, very, long time...since it isn't exactly far-fetched to say that a lot of F2P gamers tend to run uh...a less than optimal rig) I'm pretty sure that there is y'know, some people that are paying attention to what would and would not be acceptable, and it is extremely obvious these days that P2W is not acceptable anymore. Not to mention, making a P2P go F2P is usually a last resort to breathe life into your game (ala Tera) not to take a risky gamble because it kinda sorta might make more money. When XIV is on it's last leg, then is the time to go F2P, to renew interest with some giant overhaul etc etc.

But hell, half the people here think cosmetics are P2W, so what do I know.

[Bishop81]

...

Not saying you are wrong, but the "stream of content" comes in small patches and is consumed nigh instantaneously. The rest of the time, >80%, you are just grinding ... like a F2P MMO.

Vanity cash shop items aren't the only revenue stream for F2P BTW. You can pay to remove the grind too. Let's not forget that FFXIV is exploiting the former source of revenue too, so we aren't really gaining much.

http://www.pcgamesn.com/final-fantas...ations-of-fans i check gamescorn and this interview there is no mention desire to go to ftp. has op posted anything else

Where are you guys getting the impression that I'm saying that FFXIV is going F2P (or even advocating it)?

I'm just quoting YoshiP and stating that I somewhat agree with his very pragmatic PoV.

Just been...breezing around this thread.

I want to know what ass backwards F2P mmos you all are playing. I've seen a handful of f2p mmos that let the player buy gear in their cash shops, and guess what? They die. Really, really, fast. I'll be honest, I've spent way more time (and money) on F2Ps than I ever had on P2Ps, (barring XI from all this) and there are some more broken elements to cash shops, yes, but developers have long since realized that people do not enjoy p2w; creating one nowadays will easily spell death for a game. No matter how good it is.

I just don't get it. Do the people running around crying F2P is P2W really get what the items in said F2P cash shops even mean/do to the game and their economy? Or do they just see something and cry wolf?

Even if XIV went F2P (which it probably won't for a very, very, long time...since it isn't exactly far-fetched to say that a lot of F2P gamers tend to run uh...less than optimal equipment.) I'm pretty sure that there is y'know, some people that are paying attention to what would and would not be acceptable, and it is extremely obvious these days that P2W is not acceptable anymore.

But hell, half the people here think cosmetics are P2W, so what do I know.

They are many ways to run a F2P game.

The worst are the short-lived "money games". These pop up, have players "race" against each other by paying money in an expensive game of one-upmanship then die pretty quickly as players realise it's a money game AND new players are hopelessly outmatched unless they pay a king's ransom the moment they start.

New players would rather try a just started up "money game" where they can be l33t without paying as much ... and the cycle repeats.

Been trying out Trove recently. The grind is really just to unlock classes, vanity items and a few trinkets (but what's the rush right?) - it's practically Minecraft Online; building crap is 50% of it, the other 50% is grinding mats and leveling up to grind mats (sounds familiar doesn't it).

[Savagelf]

forgive us for jump to think you state ffxiv going to ftp model. i review your orignal post i know yoshi p has for his interview 2013 is defend ptp because allow him add more content. true there trend for ftp. like many other player have states it just make lvling those game harder ie the old republic

[StrejdaTom]

All are equal? Those with the time to grind up their gear, crafting, and gathering are equal to those that don't?

You pay for it. You pay for it with "time" in a sub MMO - hey, they charge by the month; so not only are you losing RL money to the sub, you are losing RL time.

Developers like YoshiP and Blizzard attempt to ease this somewhat by "resetting" gear every patch and expansion, so you can "catch up" easily. However it also devalues the effort you put in - it will just be obsolete in a few months anyway, why bother?

Are you saying puting time or money in game is equal?
In P2W MMOs, if you want to catch players who put money in the game, the time you have to put in the game is enormous (Lineage II, Archeage, Runes of Magic...). Sometimes it is even more than is possible for one single being and these people start using bots.

Also crafting and gathering in this game is strongly optional and fullmelded crafted gear is used mostly by people who are going for world firsts. Getting good gear in this game is a matter of putting a few hours weekly in it. Are you really comparing it to the F2P grindfest?

I have hard time finding anyone who doesn't have enough time to cap eso weekly and if there is someone, it is usually because of vacations or other stuf like that.

EDIT: In LII it took normal players even half year or more of mindless grind to get from 85 to 99, while some people had it in 1 - 2 months. How? Easy. Exp potions, stones that reset instances so you can run them more than once a day etc. Every F2P player argument is, that's not pay to win, that's something you can get too if you play the game for more time. Ok so, I put 10 hours a day to game, grind the same stuff for half year and when I get to players who have been on max level for so long, they are already fully geared while I am still wearing the same old stuff. Now I have to grind for next 3 months to catch to them and they have 3 more months to get infront of me.

There are only a few F2P games that let non-paying users catch up with wallet warriors.

I guarantee if FFXIV ever becomes F2P, weekly cap reset or expansion item will make it into cash shop too. ,)

I don't understand why would anyone in the world where 99% of games are F2P and most of them is P2W come to forums of P2P game and preach about F2P model.
82% of players stated that they don't want F2P model (it was poll made by SE, Yoshi mentioned it in interview), that's your answer.

[DawnSolaria]

Same company that runs Trove ran Archeage to the ground. I would have enjoyed Archeage so much more if it werent a greedy pit of cashsink.

[StrejdaTom]

Same company that runs Trove ran Archeage to the ground. I would have enjoyed Archeage so much more if it werent a greedy pit of cashsink.

ArcheAge is a shining example of what's wrong with F2P model.

[Colorful]

ArcheAge is a shining example of what's wrong with F2P model.

On the opposite there's also Path of Exile which is a excellent and fair F2P game, but it's a different genre of game.