YoshiP stated that MMOs are trending toward F2P

[SecretCrowds]

In all MMOs you have to grind. What is the diiference between F2P and P2P then?

Since you used Trove, I am going to use Rift as an example, since they are both run by Trion.

For Rift, when it was P2P, there was a grind. However, when the game when F2P, there was also a grind. But the difference was that they increased the grind by a lot. They included even more lockouts. However, they allowed you to bypass those new grinds they implemented by paying.

So, what's the difference? In F2P games, the devs will increase the grind by a lot more to encourage people to buy the grind reducing items. That's how F2P is. They design the game to encourage/force people to spend more.

And ugh. You had to use a Trion game. I hate their F2P model. They outright sell gear, including raid gear, on the cash shop. Guild Wars 2 cash shop is a lot better.

[Blood-Aki]

In all MMOs you have to grind. What is the diiference between F2P and P2P then?

Since you used Trove, I am going to use Rift as an example, since they are both run by Trion.

For Rift, when it was P2P, there was a grind. However, when the game when F2P, there was also a grind. But the difference was that they increased the grind by a lot. They included even more lockouts. However, they allowed you to bypass those new grinds they implemented by paying.

So, what's the difference? In F2P games, the devs will increase the grind by a lot more to encourage people to buy the grind reducing items. That's how F2P is. They design the game to encourage/force people to spend more.

And ugh. You had to use a Trion game. I hate their F2P model. They outright sell gear, including raid gear, on the cash shop. Guild Wars 2 cash shop is a lot better.

Yep, this is priciesly why i will forever stay away from 99% of F2P MMOs. because all it ends up being is P2W or "if you want to stop this grind, give us your money to make it easier" and normally people who swear by F2P games never realize they are spending 10x the amount to "keep up" then a paid sub.

But there aren't many paid sub MMOs out atm anyway.

[Bishop81]

You plug the hell out of Trove, don't you?

I use that as an example because it's the most recent F2P MMO I have played. It's quite boring after a while (quite quickly too) ... but that can be said of FFXIV too.

the devs will increase the grind by a lot more to encourage people to buy the grind reducing items. That's how F2P is. They design the game to encourage/force people to spend more.

And subscription MMO devs increase the grind (and/or gate them) to slow the players down so they will keep being subscribed.

Seriously, what got me thinking was how Trove had "dailies" where you log on do some task until a meter fills up then log. FFXIV has you do the exact same thing! Log on, do Hunts, daily roulette ... etc. then you log.

They are doing the exact same thing! The grind exist to suck money from your pocket.