Bard - they broke my job

[Katchoo]

turning off WM/GB due to high movement has you dipping into playing a 2.0 class in a 3.0 environment which is now infact, a dps loss on high movement (because WM is technically not a direct increase, not as much as it is required to pull relatively the same numbers in comparison).

Thank you, somebody else who sees this. This being one of my other gripes about WM, it's not really a choice.

[AkashiXI]

And even then, BRD and MCH's dps in 3.0 (that is, with WM/GB active) is still comparatively lower than that of all the other classes (who more or less have the same degree of freedom they had before, save for maybe blm). turning off WM/GB due to high movement has you dipping into playing a 2.0 class in a 3.0 environment which is now infact, a dps loss on high movement (because WM is technically not a direct increase, not as much as it is required to pull relatively the same numbers in comparison).

Honest question: is there any fight where we have to take WM off for more than 1 GCD? Right now I'm working on S3 and there are very few moments where we need to revert back to 2.0 Bard in anything. Examples being Ravana Ex during the vuln orbs, Wash Away in S3 before digi (which you can still get away with if your healer runs to you), and... that's all I can think of.

[Taban]

I cancelled my account today, I'll check back in occasionally to see if anything's changed, but I'm just not having fun on bard anymore.

[RiceisNice]

Honest question: is there any fight where we have to take WM off for more than 1 GCD? Right now I'm working on S3 and there are very few moments where we need to revert back to 2.0 Bard in anything. Examples being Ravana Ex during the vuln orbs, Wash Away in S3 before digi (which you can still get away with if your healer runs to you), and... that's all I can think of.

I've toggled GB off on some cases with the alarums in order to squeeze in some hits while waiting for the resins to go out. I mean the amount of times where you actually need to leave it off for extended periods of time (even leaving it off for one second like the alarum example isn't out of the question because you can instantly swap back into it anyway). I mean there are also times where you need to interrupt your cast to get out of an AoE (which is technically a lost GCD and thus, lost dps), but doesn't mean you need to turn off WM (which was sorta the point I was getting, interrupt casts are detrimental to our dps when it wasn't the case before hand, which some would justify as the reasoning for lower damage output)

[AkashiXI]

Those situations are few and far between, and happen to Black Mage as well (unless they have Swift). Also the ability to move before the cast time is done further buffers our ability to strafe in just about any difficult content. There's only one instance where RNG can cause headaches for us when dodging AoEs, and that's the Wind Phase in Bis Extreme.

So yes, I agree that there are times where we are forced to move and we'll lose a GCD, but it happens so little and so infrequently that I don't perceive it as a problem. That's just my opinion though, and I'd love to know your thoughts on how impactful it is to our job .

Edit: I never toggle off WM during adds in S1. We call off our missile, I bait the Resin, and I reapply iron jaws on the Oppressors until they use their beams. I always kill my add after that move, so I'm not sandwiched between it and lose my positioning under the missile. Hopefully that makes sense!

[RiceisNice]

...

On the flipside, melee isn't too heavily impacted with downtimes either when they know how to minimize it. That's what I'm trying to get at. I don't think our dps is inherently low because of the movement as much as it is because reasons. (because yoshida and devs keep bouncing between "its their mobility" or "its their support")


I toggle it because I want to get as many hits in and kill it without using my GB abilities (gauss and ricochet). Which usually boils down to using the 1-2-3 shots and heart breaker; Getting damage throughout and getting a proc off split shot will set me up nicely for when I position it and reattach GB.

[AkashiXI]

On the flipside, melee isn't too heavily impacted with downtimes either when they know how to minimize it. That's what I'm trying to get at. I don't think our dps is inherently low because of the movement as much as it is because reasons. (because yoshida and devs keep bouncing between "its their mobility" or "its their support")


I toggle it because I want to get as many hits in and kill it without using my GB abilities (gauss and ricochet). Which usually boils down to using the 1-2-3 shots and heart breaker; Getting damage throughout and getting a proc off split shot will set me up nicely for when I position it and reattach GB.

Then it sounds like your reasons are Machinist (or your raid's DPS/timing) specific, which is understandable. And you're right, they're not. Outside maybe adds in S1, Wash Away in S3, and the potential loss of their stack/stance from being Quarantined in S4, melee get to enjoy a relatively easy Striking Dummy fight. That being said, they still do lose GCDs here and there (chasing down the tank in Digititis, kiting orbs in Ravana Extreme, avoiding a nado in Bis Extreme), but it almost all becomes negligible as groups work mechanics around them. That's the truth of it: melee will always be in top priority when it comes to the most uptime on any raid boss, and other jobs work around them to achieve this.

Anyways... I'm going on a tangent, but the point is melee do suffer from the same problems as they're learning how to optimize, and I firmly believe BRD/MCH suffer in the same respect (sans the random AoE at the worst casting time for us).

[Shurrikhan]

I'll give you the definition of a "Mage" : ...

You could take a sprinting, punching, lotta-CDs-2-dots-1-proc-and-a-lot-of-filler Fire Mage and it'd still be a mage (even if likely playing more similarly to 2.x's Bard). Just not our mages. XIV 'Mage' is essentially an equivalent expression to 'turret nuke class'. No point in purposely taking things out of their more specific context when the meaning's plenty clear.

Thank you, somebody else who sees this. This being one of my other gripes about WM, it's not really a choice.

This is the sad truth of it. At a good 15% dps increase even just in ST situations, it's kind of unavoidable. If we had gained any-stance EA at 52 and then WM at 54, it'd at least give the illusion of choice instead of being a something you click off for a few seconds, no more often than once every 15-minus-said-few seconds, to get across the room. I like WM. I don't like its alternative being so much below that I don't feel like I'm pushing any limits in or am pigeonholed into using it, though.

[VoltaAsura]

I just want to say that I have mained bard since a month after launch.

I did not like WM at first, but I grew to like it and have incorporated it, and the new skills, into my existing rotation.

I have more fun with bard than I ever have since these changes in 3.0. Anyone who refuses to adapt and change so they can maximize their dps deserves to unsub and quit the game. Bard is a blast to play now, and you're crazy to say otherwise.

I should also point out that most bards nowadays do not realize that you do not have to say in WM all the time.

I've played with bards who have WM on the entire run. Literally from the moment they spawn at the beginning of the dungeon, until the last boss dies. This is not how it should be used to be optimal, and imo its rather boring and detrimental to your party this way.

There are definitely times where its needed, and certain phases where it is best to turn it off (add phases during a boss fight for example). In a boss fight, I will straight shot, wind bite and venomous bite, switch on WM and throw all of my CDs on EA, and just go to town from there. Add phase? I usually turn off WM until all adds are dead and then resume what I was doing before. Its not rocket science.

I also use the "lazy bard" macro and have added sidewinder to it since 3.0. This also helps quite the bit.

[Ferrasper]

There is nothing wrong with having it on during the entire run. Things die quicker with it on, so it's not detrimental in any way. Just need to know when to dodge.