So are consoles holding back this game?

[Bishop81]

Personally I don't think consoles like the PS3 are holding the game back as much as everyone thinks.

Sure it constrains the level design a bit, basically everything created has to be able to be trim down to fit on the PS3, but with things like textures, shader effects, shadows ... etc. those are "optional" and/or can be easily turned down.

The game has a good deal of easily fixable graphical flaws,

• Lack of mip-mapping in many areas. Granted it will increase load times but I don't see why they can't implement some sort of prioritized texture streaming. It's a big part why the game looks so "aliased".
• Water. With DX11 and tessellation on it doesn't even look half as good as GTA V's water (https://youtu.be/i63NKuhLlcg), I mean seriously.
• Parallax mapping also glitches out quite often. I understand it's a limitation of the technique but you should at least try design around those edge cases.

[Ceodore]

There's some points to make about the trade offs between consoles and games. TL;DR at the bottom.


Trade off 1: There's a huge difference in peripheral choice. For instance, I play using 4 different peripherals, Razer Naga (Mouse with a number pad on the side), Razer Nostromo (Half keyboard finger pad with joystick and tons of toggles), Razer Anasi (Full keyboard with lots of macro keys), and 3 foot pedals for more toggle. Now, two of these (If not all of them due to the brands) are not compatible with the PS4, yet every PS4 controller is compatible with use on the PC. But these are all preference things that change when people develop muscle memory for one or the other. I could never play on the PS4 unless I trained myself to do it because I have developed muscle memory for my PC peripherals.

Trade Off 2: PCs function on software designed to seamlessly integrate programs with different hardware (Windows, Linux, Apple, whatever your brand of choice) and because of this, PCs come in a variety of different forms, from casual, to business, to gaming. Their ability to be customized means that their limitations are only due to what hardware is biggest and baddest at the time. However, this also means that the limitations change almost monthly, and thus designing a game based on what is the biggest and baddest is simply foolish. Now, to come to my point, and to understand it, you have to look at consoles. No matter how you slice it, this game is inherently limited by consoles. This isn't necessarily a bad thing though. It creates a base line hardware ideal for what the game can run on. While this does mean that the game can never exceed these limitations (unless it drops the support for said console) it also means that as PC parts drop in price, and thus creating a PC that meets or exceeds those limitations becomes cheaper, and allows for a larger player base. So, YES, the game IS limited by consoles, however, the console in question that is limiting the game is the PS3, and considering that thoughts about dropping the PS3 from being supported is bouncing around, that limitation is likely to lift. In such a case, the game can and WILL experience a dramatic increase in its capabilities. To understand this, you have to understand the differences between the hardware of the PS3 and the PS4.

PS3: Single Core CPU 3.2 GHZ, 550 Mhz Nvidia Graphics card, and 256 MB of RAM.
PS4: 8 Core AMD CPU 1.75 GHZ each, 800 Mhz Radeon Graphics card, and 8 GB of RAM.

Quite a big difference. While the specs on the PS4 are still well below most common computers today (The videocard is about equivalent to an integrated video card) it is still far above the PS3. So if the PS3 is capable of running the game currently, should it ever be dropped from support, and should the game ever receive an update after such time, you could expect to see a radical improvement on the limitations of the game. It will take a seriously stressful game to push the limitations of a PS4, and it would probably also push those of any common computer as well. Remember, console game software is made in mind to use hardware to its fullest. Companies in fact lose money on the sales of gaming consoles, in the knowledge that the sales of the games themselves (which are just software and a disk) will cover that loss plus more. Because of this loss, they try to program these systems to make the most use of every part of the system possible. This is one of the reasons these systems get so hot and require adequate ventilation space, the parts are being pushed to their limits almost constantly. The downside of this is what we are seeing with the PS3. When they reach those limits, the game experiences crippling lag. So I fully support removing support for the PS3, because that alone would be enough of a lift on the limitations on this game to see dramatic improvements.

Trade off 3: While looking into the future of this game, there are some major differences between the PC and PS4. The hardware for the PS4 can not be customized like a PC can. This means that the games created for these systems are drastically different. While PC games have dramatically evolved over the years, PS4 games will never be able to evolve. Despite even the best programming minds in the world, there is still no way to squeeze more from a machine that has locked in hardware than it already being squeezed. This is obviously not an issue right now, however, it may become an issue down the road should this game have a life span like its previous MMO predecessor, or WoW. PCs will continue to change and evolve and become more powerful. Their parts will become cheaper as newer, stronger, and better parts become available, because that's the beauty of a PC, if you have the money, you can have the honey. So as PCs continue to change and evolve, the game will either have to do the same, or risk competition from games that are purely PC that are developed in the future to run on the stronger machines. 8 core processors with 8 GB ram and integrated video cards are quickly becoming obsolete. Even casual PCs you can find at Best Buy now can come with dedicated cards already in them. Should this game last long enough, this will pose a problem for the PS4. Of course, by that time, there will likely be a PS 5 or 6, so all that will be required is an upgrade. This doesn't seem like a problem, but it is, because look at the issues we now are seeing with the PS3. Trying to phase out support for a console poses the possibility of alienating a fair portion of the game's community, specifically, those that can't or won't buy the new system. Again, if you have the money, you can have the honey.

Trade off 4: I mentioned the peripherals earlier, but there is another difference between these systems that limits this game beyond the hardware or software. There is also the issue with tactics. Take for instance, WoW, where they have fights like "Operator Thogar in Blackrock Foundry" (Thank you Kroselok Qahnarrin for helping me remember the name of this fight) where you fight in a train station, and you are constantly dealing with different trains coming in and out, with vastly different mechanics, on top of the boss, plus sometimes being split up from your group. We don't see fights quite like this in FFXIV due to the limitations between PC and PS4 controllers. I have heard you can use a mouse with the PS4, but I wonder how advanced of mice you can actually use. I've also heard you can use a keyboard with the PS4 too, but I wonder if things like the macro systems for Razer function at all with it. My point here is that designing fights like those in WoW, where there are complicated mechanics beyond just point and activate, or DPS burn, or move here, is quite difficult when you are trying to design a game that takes into consideration the limitations inherent on both system controls, more specifically, the PS4's system controls. Where I can set up toggle buttons for nearly 500-600 different key functions between my 4 different peripherals, the software I use to do this is not available on the PS4 (Razer Synapse software). This is in fact one of the reasons that the TOS doesn't like third party programs so much, because of the fact that software for the PC is abundant, and creating third party macros is a capability specifically only for the PC. So, they try to limit it, but it's virtually undetectable unless a macro is made that is just blatantly obvious (like crafting bots). The difference can also be seen between WoW and FFXIV in the global cooldowns. WoW has a very quick GCD, where FFXIV has a GCD almost double that. This in part is due to the fact that controls on the PS4 require more complex button presses than those on the PC. For instance, you access 8 skills from one side of the cross hotbar. I access 12 skills from just my thumb on my mouse. You press a button to switch from one cross hotbar to another, I press one button on my Nostromo with my other thumb to toggle to another hotbar where I can now access 12 more skills. In the same amount of button presses, I have accessed 24 hotbar skills that it took for the PS4 to access 16. To switch to another hotbar, I simply press another toggle, maybe with my foot this time on my pedals, or perhaps with the joystick on my Nostromo. But, when I release these buttons, I'm automatically back to my original hotbar. From the videos I have seen on the PS4 controllers, to do this, you have to press another button. With that in mind, SE has created a longer GCD, and it often comes off as making the game feel slower. I know it took a lot of getting use to after switching from games like TERA and Guild Wars 2. It wasn't so hard for me, since I've always played tanks and they were always suppose to feel kind of slow.

Conclusion/TL;DR: The differences between console and PC are there, and while they can be made up for by talented players, one can not deny that they are there. I have played with some really good PS4 players, and I am not here to knock the PS4, because frankly, the game was made with the console players in mind, so you will never be able to tell the difference between a good console player and a good PC player. Drop PS3, and we're golden.

[Treble]

Personally I don't think consoles like the PS3 are holding the game back as much as everyone thinks.

Sure it constrains the level design a bit, basically everything created has to be able to be trim down to fit on the PS3, but with things like textures, shader effects, shadows ... etc. those are "optional" and/or can be easily turned down.

The game has a good deal of easily fixable graphical flaws,

• Lack of mip-mapping in many areas. Granted it will increase load times but I don't see why they can't implement some sort of prioritized texture streaming. It's a big part why the game looks so "aliased".
• Water. With DX11 and tessellation on it doesn't even look half as good as GTA V's water (https://youtu.be/i63NKuhLlcg), I mean seriously.
• Parallax mapping also glitches out quite often. I understand it's a limitation of the technique but you should at least try design around those edge cases.

Actually the PS3 is holding it back quite a bit.

The reason we havn't seen any resolution improvements on our character models and armors and only minor lighting filters is due to the PS3.

It also limits our ability to have open play areas like in 1.0 as opposed to the zoned off borders we have atm.

The PS3 also limites how many details we can have on the screen at a time, so things like character customizations such as adding say... seperate horn and face options for au'ra, just can't be done due to the PS3's ram limits. That applies not only to that small detail, but to MANY other things as well in terms of adding detail and differences to models and armors and customizability and so forth.


I mean they've done a fantastic job working within their limits, but I GUARANTEE you that if we see the PS3 dropped, then this games gonna seem like a different game.

Infact, I bet they're waiting till they drop it to add flying to the ARR areas so they don't have to zone them off anymore, so we can just fly seamlessly from place to place, and it'll feel more like heavensward flying as opposed to flying for half a second and being done with a zone.

[Bishop81]

Actually the PS3 is holding it back quite a bit.

The reason we havn't seen any resolution improvements on our character models and armors and only minor lighting filters is due to the PS3.

Again I don't see how the PS3 is affecting all that. It can just run with lower res textures and with the lighting filters turned off.

It also limits our ability to have open play areas like in 1.0 as opposed to the zoned off borders we have atm.

The PS3 also limites how many details we can have on the screen at a time, so things like character customizations such as adding say... seperate horn and face options for au'ra, just can't be done due to the PS3's ram limits. That applies not only to that small detail, but to MANY other things as well in terms of adding detail and differences to models and armors and customizability and so forth.

OK. Although character customizations also strain the servers as they have more data to send.

I mean they've done a fantastic job working within their limits, but I GUARANTEE you that if we see the PS3 dropped, then this games gonna seem like a different game.

Infact, I bet they're waiting till they drop it to add flying to the ARR areas so they don't have to zone them off anymore, so we can just fly seamlessly from place to place, and it'll feel more like heavensward flying as opposed to flying for half a second and being done with a zone.

Don't know about seamless. For it to be seamless, they will have to stream in all the graphical data from the hard disk. Regardless if you are on the PS3, PS4 or a pimped out PC, hard disk speed is the bottleneck and is the nearly same across.

Also some of the loading delay is due to the server lagging out when transferring you from one zone to another. So it's not only a client issue.

[silentwindfr]

how the ps3 affect it? 256 mo of ram is enough said, it affect the whole game, mmorpg are one of the most demanding in ram. the city was cut in area because of the ps3, other point, develop for the ps3 ask to make the game with another programmation code since the ps3 is a totally different one, the ps4 is really close of the PC, reducing the cost and the time needed for pass it from one platform to another.

on the long terms the limitation of the ps3 is really important and will ask more time for adapt it to that support. people defending the ps3 are.... silly and must admit that the hardware is too old for this sort of game now. they was kind enough to spend a looooot of time and money for make this version. but i think they need to stop to spend cash on this hardware sooner or later.

[SyraLeo]

I don't know if this affects gameplay but i would like for them to add an option to skip the dialogue box for entering zones.

I don't want to keep clicking Ok to enter my FC house or to exit. Make it more seamless, like the transitioning between zones with those blue dotted lines. It wouldn't affect gameplay and i think consoles can handle that as well.

[Greyfrost]

The only question would be are they going to rework the old contents, maps, towns by the time they dropped service for PS3, if it's only for future (after dropping ps3) content that gets modified for ultrablabla enhancements, then that's cutting it short, I think?

This might seem out of context but let's take a look at moonfire faire, my friends who're playing on PS3/4 experiences massive framelag to almost a freeze at costa del sol, now you might think, hey even people who play on PC lags there during the event when it's crowded, yes, that's true, but that's not the point.

You can upgrade your pc easily, you can't upgrade your console, there's only a buy/sell/trade-in option. I might be wrong on this.

[razzgrizz3]

absolutely yes they are. i hope they discontinue ps3 support with the next expansion.

[Colorful]

The only question would be are they going to rework the old contents, maps, towns by the time they dropped service for PS3, if it's only for future (after dropping ps3) content that gets modified for ultrablabla enhancements, then that's cutting it short, I think?

If they ever release HD textures I think it would be a given to do that, but to merge areas so there's no loading screens, or do stuff like merge Old and New Gridania I doubt it. They didn't do it with flying, sure they can throw that "flying isn't needed in smaller areas" reason around which does hold some truth to it, but it's also a way for them to save time removing all the invisible walls and the like.

[Greyfrost]

On a side-note while we're talking about future improvement/dropping issue, has anyone ever mentioned the needs/implementing of multy-party queue for an alliance raid?