Bored now...

[LucentLagombi]

snip

That's fundamentally backwards. You're essentially saying taking content people are recommending and telling them "no that's not content cus I say so". First of all they're just recommendations, you don't have to listen to them, they're just trying to help. Second of all saying crafting/gathering or really anything else in the game isn't content is like saying soccer isn't a sport because you don't like that sport and you think all sports should be basketball.

[Reaperking386]

WHat exactly were you expecting? The story is the Indentity the reward system is the same because that is how this game has progressed. you expect them to remake the game like 1.0 from the ground up on every expansion? that probably wouldn't work out to well.

I expected something new. I expected something to do on the side that Hw can call its own. I am not asking for a rework of the concept of progression. I am asking for something that stands out from ARR that gets players to do something while they wait for Alex or tokens to reset. There will be more stuff introduced later patches, I know, but having only 2 dungeons, 2 primals, and 2 twin raids is not enough for players for +4 months. Primals? cleared in the first week and later cleared by the majority in 3 weeks. token grinding? not bad, but boring if it is 2 dungeons the entire time. Alex normal? cool, but ruins my appetite for savage. Crafting? reward is bad for the work put in for scripts. Gathering? pointless if you don't have a crafter to improve on. Everything else? That is ARR and I have done that

That is the mindset of a bored person at the moment. That is why they are not motivated.

[Hyrist]

I wanted to avoid that misconception. Its an improvement I agree. What im trying to say is that alex is not part of the problem, but it made people aware another problem existed with endgame.

Ok then. But here's the issue.

Let's take it as a granted, for a moment, that entirety of what we received was the maximum amount they were able to give us for the timeframe.

In terms of improving delivery on the first patch of the expansion, what do we take away, to add to what we have?

It's clear that SE made the design decision to start the expansion by covering their bases. With the exception of the 24 man Raid, which has a set place in the content cycle, all the systems that needed updating were updated. Let's list out all we got for a moment.

Zones
Storyline (including several combat instances)
FATE System - (Including Special Fates with unique drops)
(Temple) Leve System (includes large scale leves)
Leveling Dungeons (6)
Storyline Trials (3)
Hunts (Sustainable up to and including entry level Endgame)
Treature Hunts (casual venture)
Airship Ventures
FC Crafting
Tomestone Dungeons (2)
New PvP Zone/Mode (1)
New Crafting/Gathering Grind
Alexander Normal
Alexander Savage

To add more endgame 'new' something of the above needs be sacrificed.

The question I pose is, do we push back work on something like Alexander, our highest progression aspect, to release a new system that may not be the highest accessible gear in a patch cycle?

Ideally to not insult or hurt another play-style, something of endgame has to give to give something new to endgame. Otherwise you're going to have a different segment of players argue against it. But I'm willing to hear suggestions from around the table.

[Kallera]

By that logic there is no way to add anything ever because whatever SE releases will be the maximum they can do.

So people are seeing the same treadmill as before, the same treadmill as in prior versions, and there is honest frustration from some folks as questions are being asked.

Questions like this thread.

[Eisen-Zorn]

Ok then. But here's the issue.

Let's take it as a granted, for a moment, that entirety of what we received was the maximum amount they were able to give us for the timeframe.

In terms of improving delivery on the first patch of the expansion, what do we take away, to add to what we have?

It's clear that SE made the design decision to start the expansion by covering their bases. With the exception of the 24 man Raid, which has a set place in the content cycle, all the systems that needed updating were updated. Let's list out all we got for a moment.

Zones
Storyline (including several combat instances)
FATE System - (Including Special Fates with unique drops)
(Temple) Leve System (includes large scale leves)
Leveling Dungeons (6)
Storyline Trials (3)
Hunts (Sustainable up to and including entry level Endgame)
Treature Hunts (casual venture)
Airship Ventures
FC Crafting
Tomestone Dungeons (2)
New PvP Zone/Mode (1)
New Crafting/Gathering Grind
Alexander Normal
Alexander Savage

To add more endgame 'new' something of the above needs be sacrificed.

The question I pose is, do we push back work on something like Alexander, our highest progression aspect, to release a new system that may not be the highest accessible gear in a patch cycle?

Ideally to not insult or hurt another play-style, something of endgame has to give to give something new to endgame. Otherwise you're going to have a different segment of players argue against it. But I'm willing to hear suggestions from around the table.

The developers said that Heavensward would almost contain the same amount as A Realm Reborn. When you look at it, they gave us a comparable amount of content to that of A Realm Reborn.

Remember, A Realm Reborn is only what was included in 2.0. The content updates after 2.0 were not technically part of the A Realm Reborn story.

Those were:
- 2.1 A Realm Awoken
- 2.2 Through The Maelstrom
- 2.3 Defenders of Eorzea
- 2.4 Dreams of Ice
- 2.5 Before The Fall.

That is an entire year worth of content on top of the original game released at 2.0. Heavensward was meant to be comparable to 2.0 and only 2.0. When you look at what we were given, they've given us what they promised.

[Iagainsti]

I agree there is content here to keep me busy for 4 months, I guess I don't play as much(especially since it's summer in NA- ever heard of a beach? Camping? Going outside at the very least??) all I wish they'd add would be an EX version of the Singularity Reactor(like we had Ultima HM), otherwise I'm content with Savage and the new pvp map to keep me busy till November.

[Hyrist]

By that logic there is no way to add anything ever because whatever SE releases will be the maximum they can do.

So people are seeing the same treadmill as before, the same treadmill as in prior versions, and there is honest frustration from some folks as questions are being asked.

Questions like this thread.

No, it means they need to direct workflow and change their priorities. Keep in mind, that in patches FOLLOWING a Realm Reborn's first patch, new content was released. What you're arguing for, but are refusing to acknowledge, is that in order for them to add something new, something older must be bumped. Otherwise you're flat out telling the developers and the rest of the community that they're being lazy and not working.

We've already seen evidence of this workload cap in what was lost compared to a Realm Reborn. We got more instances for Personal Story, but where are the Guildhests? The Guild Hunt system has at this point completely replaced the Hunting Log system, which makes sense because daily/weekly hunts is content that was added later. So, Hunting Logs got bumped for the hunting system we have now. And the additional storyline engagements cut into what could have been more Guildhests.

So yes. What I am telling you is, this is a game of give and take. In order to take more, you must give up something, or bump it in patching order.

So again, back to the point, what content that was released by 3.05 would you bump, in order to get this 'new' thing you want prioritized above it? Cause that's exactly what you're asking for. There's only so much a set crew can do in a set time. And we've seen the extent of it. Recognize the argument for what it is, and help pick the priority for them to work out better for next time around.

That is an entire year worth of content on top of the original game released at 2.0. Heavensward was meant to be comparable to 2.0 and only 2.0. When you look at what we were given, they've given us what they promised.

Don't know why you quoted me for that. We're in agreement. What I'm trying to point out here is that for all this argument for 'new' I see no debate along the lines of what the malcontent are willing to prioritize back and delay in order to get this new content.

"I want something new at release!" Offers no business sense or understanding of man-hour limitations.

[Kallera]

I don't remember any demanding that we must make business decisions for a company that we are not a part of, devoid of internal project information, due dates,and progress whenever we make a suggestion.

And clearly anything i choose will be with hindsight of it working, or not working.

[Hyrist]

I don't remember any demanding that we must make business decisions for a company that we are not a part of, devoid of internal project information, due dates,and progress whenever we make a suggestion.

And clearly anything i choose will be with hindsight of it working, or not working.

You're evading the question now.

What would you give up to make room for this 'new' content you want? It's a simple enough question to understand and respond to.

If you can't, or won't, then really, what's to say that you or some other person won't complain about the contrasting position?

"New" Content comes out in place of Alexander.

"Where's our new High End Raid!?" Someone complains.

Portions of leveling content are cut out to accommodate for better endgame.

"OMG LEVELING IS SUCH A GRIND" Someone complains.

So no matter how you pitch it, someone's going to complain.

So what complaint would you rather hear, if you were in their shoes? That they didn't cover their basics, or that people are starving for some new content?

If you can't even speculate upon yourself that far, then you concede control over what happens to someone else who can.

And make no mistake: any and all feedback is an attempt to influence business decisions made by the Company and crew, and you are devoid of the necessary knowledge to do so. That's why ultimately any designer looks at this negatively charged feedback and struggles not to dismiss it as ignorant and prepubescent whining.

A few steps to be more understanding of the individuals you're demanding more from goes a long way.

[Kallera]

Hunts. I would choose hunts.

I'm saying the question is pointless, all we can currently do is suggest that the second verse of endgame is not the same as the first.