Is it time to get rid of the PIE party bonus?

[Kerrigen]

With the addition of AST to the game we now have 2 healers that give a PIE party bonus while only one (WHM) gives a MND bonus. This creates some imbalance as MND not only affects healing, but healer DPS as well. It's in fact probably the biggest loss in an AST/SCH party and has been bemoaned countless times in discussions involving AST/SCH on this forum and others.

Now, I think everyone gets that party stat bonuses were added early to the game to avoid class-stacking. However, I think it is now largely obsolete because:

• In terms of utility, the jobs balance each other out well enough in a typical full party setup that you don't really want to stack a single class.
• Similar roles typically give similar bonuses (MNK and DRG give STR, all 3 tanks give VIT etc.), with the only disparity we have being in the healer role. It was designed that way to promote having a WHM/SCH combo during 2.x and pretty much nobody complained because WHM/SCH was the norm back then. Well, it still is, but for different reasons.

I'm questioning why the only healer combo to be penalized with a significant (3%) main stat loss would be AST/SCH. There are two (maybe three) ways to adjust this system:

• Give every healer a MND bonus and give up on PIE. This is probably not ideal but would be reasonable. Alternative would be to give every healer a MND bonus, PIE bonus on top of it for full party.
• Give a MND bonus to Diurnal AST and a PIE bonus to Nocturnal AST. I'm not really sure they can technically make that work as it seems to be inherently tied to the jobs in the party.
• Significantly revamp the whole party bonus system as it is trying to solve a problem that doesn't really exist in the first place.

What do other players think? Is it an interesting system that should be kept as is? Should it be revamped? Should it be dropped?

[technole]

No it doesn't need to be changed. PIE bonus is great for WHM, and BLMs love it too because of the extended MP pool.

When 4.0 comes around, the next healer will likely have MND party bonus. That is why.

[Cynfael]

If you get rid of the PIE party bonus, the BLM population will cut you. Even now total PIE matters for specific rotations unless you're a Dunefolk Lala.

[RaeyFonzur]

I don't see any reason for PIE to be a party bonus, it isn't a main stat for anyone and ends up only punishing healers.

[StouterTaru]

I don't see any reason for PIE to be a party bonus, it isn't a main stat for anyone and ends up only punishing healers.

MP regen rate is a percent of your max MP, so on top of a larger total MP pool everyone also gets more MP over the course of an instance.

[Ghishlain]

As an alternate suggestion, why not give all healers both MND and PIE stat bonus? Not like any other role in the game provides either of these bonuses and it would balance out all the healers in terms of party bonus.

[Keewee]

Ok, so let's transpose this between healers and casters, just for kicks.

Assume that all healers have MND bonus, Black Mage doesn't have an INT bonus but a PIE bonus, and SMN is the only class with an INT bonus.

Technole, Cynfael, your arguments still hold:
* PIE bonus is great for healers, and SMNs love it too because of the extended MP pool!
* If you get rid of the PIE party bonus, the healer and SMN population will cut you.

But the BLMs, most of the time, will lose 3% of their main stat if there is no summoner. And this is currently what happens to healers when there is no WHM in the party.

[Risvertasashi]

But the BLMs, most of the time, will lose 3% of their main stat if there is no summoner. And this is currently what happens to healers when there is no WHM in the party.

It's been a long time since I've run in a static with double casters... or even seen one.

[Cynfael]

Ok, so let's transpose this between healers and casters, just for kicks.

Assume that all healers have MND bonus, Black Mage doesn't have an INT bonus but a PIE bonus, and SMN is the only class with an INT bonus.

Technole, Cynfael, your arguments still hold:
* PIE bonus is great for healers, and SMNs love it too because of the extended MP pool!
* If you get rid of the PIE party bonus, the healer and SMN population will cut you.

But the BLMs, most of the time, will lose 3% of their main stat if there is no summoner. And this is currently what happens to healers when there is no WHM in the party.

Then give all healers both MND and PIE party bonuses if it's a big concern, as Ghis suggests. This is what they should have done to begin with.

Better idea than penalizing a different group in the process.

[SpecialKK]

I don't heal so didn't even know about this. But DRK I would think gets benefit from piety with reliance on MP.