Please let BRDs use Empyrean Arrow and Iron Jaws outside of Wanderer's Minuet

[Warlyx]

also while autoattacks were 20% of your damage after the barrage change wanderers was still better - because of the increased action damage trait

20% extra damage on actions (which is not autoattack)
the way damage stacks in this game wanderers was really 20% x 20% = 44% so 24% or pretty much higher than autos
but all the bard bitching got it buffed so Machinists get to be op as balls, thanks

.... lol , do u know that every class get that trait right? ....what about Ninjas , trait and poison ....

[RiceisNice]

.... lol , do u know that every class get that trait right? ....what about Ninjas , trait and poison ....

You're taking it out of context. He meant that because of the passives, the 20% (now 30%) increase from WM was multiplicative on top of the trait bonus. Although that doesn't necessarily the damage increase was really that good either, esp pre-60.

[dielray]

also while autoattacks were 20% of your damage after the barrage change wanderers was still better - because of the increased action damage trait

20% extra damage on actions (which is not autoattack)
the way damage stacks in this game wanderers was really 20% x 20% = 44% so 24% or pretty much higher than autos
but all the bard bitching got it buffed so Machinists get to be op as balls, thanks

Although you are correct that damage increases are multiplicative, you are comparing different things here. The 20% figure(which is low balling it) is the percentage of total damage, including base damage, traits, and auto attacks. Your Wanderer's percentage is the increase over base damage but not the trait, while factoring in the increase from the trait. So let's compare auto attacks to the same thing.

Auto attacks were 25% of the base damage plus traits. (Base damage + traits were 80% of the total damage. 80% + 80% * 25% = 100%)

But now we need to find auto-attacks compared to base damage to have a fair comparison. We know that auto attacks are equal to 25% of 120% of base damage (the 120% comes from the 20% trait plus the base damage itself). 25% * 120% = 30%.

So the fair comparison would be 30% from auto attacks vs the 24% gained from wanderer's pre-buff.

[Snowaeth]

Snip...
Auto attacks were 25% of the base damage plus traits.

Just dropping by to point out that auto attack % was based on bard performance and not a set % number.
The less skills you manage to fire off properly the more % your auto's would be.

Basically the good bards that never wasted any gcd time and always did the right skills at the right times, their auto attack % was somewhere arond 19% because of their proper skill management.

[Mikedizzy]

With Determination no longer affecting Auto attack though the dynamic has changed. Skill speed affecting dots and the way Crit is working now I think are making up for it as a whole.

[dielray]

Just dropping by to point out that auto attack % was based on bard performance and not a set % number.
The less skills you manage to fire off properly the more % your auto's would be.

Basically the good bards that never wasted any gcd time and always did the right skills at the right times, their auto attack % was somewhere arond 19% because of their proper skill management.

The part you quoted is with auto attacks at 20% of all damage, which is 25% of non-auto attack damage.

Perhaps I'm misremembering the 20% part. I'd have to dig out my old notes, but memory was telling me 18-24% depending on what crit. A crit sidewinder for example pushing auto attacks lower.

[AcaciaTyrannia]

No.

Either adapt or die.

[Waeksyn]

I think that SE can fix all of this by introducing a new job, ranger, that is pure mobile DPS without cast times and without support abilities that just confuse the player base into thinking that the job is supposed to suck at damage.

[Odowla]

This is the damage breakdown I'm getting - 4 minute run.

https://gyazo.com/f969c31c54fcc56536457d68b850e0a7

So yeah, wanderers was definetly an increase before the buff, after the barrage changes.

Regardless of that, I think the problem is It seems like bards disagree with the idea of Wanderers on a thematic level for some reason.. and I think the problems with Wanderers isnt that at all.

thematically it fits, you're a bard, you play music, music makes people dance, and a minuet is a very slow dance. (i.e. the kind of dance you could probalby do while playing a lute like a bard would)
, the speed of the dance represented by the cast times. The "lack" of mobility isnt a problem. You can still move, and since stance dancing has proven to be a small increase, during sections you need heavy movement, toggling it off is not a problem for short periods.

The real problem of Wanderers is the function of Empyreal Arrow.

An off-GCD ability with a 1.5second cast time is not okay when you have a 2.5 second GCD with a 1.5 second cast time. At maximum you could do a 1 second cast time, but like, still, that forces a GCD clip - especially when coupled with Barrage. The easy fix would just be to simply remove the cast time and give it the Gauss Round treatment - essentially just an OGCD - maybe keep the affect of barrage and allow it to with with Empyreal. This would fix the problem of how you lose bloodletter procs from time to time due to empyreal/other ogcds - and Bloodletter is much more important because of its ability to reset at any time. As I mentioned before, you can't get multiple procs at once, but the "double" proc thing is just a visual bug - you can't use both even if you're out of WM (i've tried). probably just a function of Wanderers or something.

Either way, Empyreal should have its cast time removed. Keeping it WM exclusive is fine as an incentive, but the cast time itself is pretty cancer to just force you to eat GCD's for "max" DPS. Keep Barrage effect the same -> add a note in the tooltip that it works with weaponskills/empyreal arrow specifically (or just change it to "certain job actions" as SE would). Bloodletter "double" proc is again, just visual, so maybe find the cause of that and fix it, or a better solution would be to add another effect to river of blood and make Bloodletter have an "ammo" system, call the buff "Quiver" or something, and every BL reset adds an arrow into the quiver, usable by RoD or BL, up to a cap, of course, so you don't miss out on so many BL's / allowing you to have insane burst if you need to drop WM for whatever (hello, heavy shot + BL BL > heavy shot + BL BL ? lolol)

[Geardagas]

No.

Either adapt or die.

Glad somebody said it!

This isn't an issue like AST, where they are just not worth picking over the other two healers. Bard is perfectly fine; we are a valued member of a raid group and we bring alot to the table, and the HW
rotation is a blast.