Change for Steel Cyclone?

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

i'm not under-estimating the damage output of a WAR. however, i have specifically asked groups on a few occasions through Expert Roulette to allow me to see the damage of Steel Cyclone. the result is pretty much the same as at the testing dummy. it inflicts roughly 1~2% damage to the HP. it does around 863 (sometimes around 950 with the party STR buff) damage, with my current gear. (AIL155)

when in a level 60 dungeon i Parry roughly 1/3 of all attacks throughout the dungeon. with no stacks of Wrath applied the amount of attacks i Parry is noticeably less, roughly 1/5 as compared to 1/3. and in level 50 dungeons i Parry roughly almost 1/2 of all attacks, without the Wrath it is around 1/4.

all-in-all, when using Steel Cyclone all by itself, the most practical use is Enmity. which simply isn't worth trading a Parry buff for. again, i am not and have never been discounting any other uses for the skill. Enmity is easy enough to generate without the use of Steel Cyclone. it just isn't worth trading Parry for a tiny bit of Enmity.


either way, the skill has plenty use as is. and again, i never considered it a bad skill to begin with. it was just a concern with trading Parry to generate what is a rather small amount of Enmity.

[Phoenicia]

Snip.

I don't know where to begin.... I'll try.

Did you actually parse your parry rate? There is NO WAY IN HELL you can parry more than 20% (1/5) with current gear. 1/4? 1/3? even 1/2? Dude, I'm sorry to say this, you are plainly lying! Or you are trying to make fools of the tank community.

Where are your numbers coming from? If your gear is so shite that your SC does half of what it should (ilv155), you won't parry more than the ilv190 tanks (15~17%.)

My WAR is ilv178 I think, I have a 160 weapon and my SC does 1300 without Berserk! Mobs in dungeons do not have 100k HP, they have more like 50k. 1.5k is 3%. 3% to EVERY mob from ONE skill is VERY significant.

Let's ignore the damage factor, Steel Cyclone is the single highest AoE enmity generating skill in the entire game! At nearly 800 potency, and it costs 0 TP! Using SC means you need less Overpowers and you can refresh your Maim buff and rebuild your Wrath.

It is NEVER keeping tiny bit of parry over Steel Cyclone or Unchained! If you want to parry so hard, use Raw Intuition, you WILL parry 100% of the time and Wrath + parry stat will be useless.

If you are so worried about the damage you take, and since you seem to magically parry 1/5 of the time anyways, USE your stacks on Inner Beast. IB has 30~33% uptime if you use it as soon as it charges. You will be GUARANTEED reduce damage by 20%, 30% of the time! You still parry while IB is up!

I personally don't even know why you wanna stay in Defiance after building enough threat (1 Steel Cyclone and 1~2 Overpowers). Pop a defensive CD and switch to Deliverance and literally "Decimate" those mobs.

TL;DR: Don't be that guy, don't hold on to your wrath for parry. But if you want to be that guy, then fine, it's your choice to be bad.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

i have spent about the last 3 weeks watching closely the amount of attacks that i Parry throughout both Lv50 and Lv60 dungeons. in lv60 dungeons Parry occurs roughly 1/3 of the time, without Wrath it occurs roughly 1/5 of the time. and in Lv50 dungeons Parry occurs roughly 1/2 of the time, without Wrath roughly 1/4 of the time. i dunno, maybe i am just super lucky every run of a dungeon. i also can't use those tools on the PS4

Steel Cyclone just doesn't even seem to be generating enough Enmity for me. at first i contributed this due to the fact the majority of DPS people out-gear me. but even when i am in a group with DPS that are on equal footing in gear, or even less... using Steel Cyclone simply doesn't do anything to their Enmity. i look at the party list and see their bar not move down in the slightest. even Flash has been showing me more Enmity gain on the party list.

i can go through a lv50 dungeon in only IL100gear + IL100weapon. even with DPS players out-gearing me, Steel Cyclone makes a good impact on Enmity there. how come it doesn't seem to make an impact at all on Enmity generation through a lv60? what am i doing wrong?

and yes, Unchained and Inner Beast are good skills to use your Wrath on. i use them all the time. i use Unchained + Berserk on boss encounters to get enough Enmity to allow me to switch to Deliverance. however, i usually only use Inner Beast when i know a heavy hit is coming.

[Kuwagami]

in Lv50 dungeons Parry occurs roughly 1/2 of the time, without Wrath roughly 1/4 of the time.

I would like to know how you can conclude anything from "data" showing that a +10% parry rate buff gives a +25% parry rate in practice.

i can go through a lv50 dungeon in only IL100gear + IL100weapon. even with DPS players out-gearing me, Steel Cyclone makes a good impact on Enmity there. how come it doesn't seem to make an impact at all on Enmity generation through a lv60? what am i doing wrong?

you're not considering the huge difference there is in stats in a +10 ilvl difference between i100 and i150

You can tank easily any i130 while in i100. You'll have troubles tanking i190 if you're in i160.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

I would like to know how you can conclude anything from "data" showing that a +10% parry rate buff gives a +25% parry rate in practice

i don't know, it is just what i see. :/ almost every other attack throughout a level 50 dungeon results in a successful Parry.

you're not considering the huge difference there is in stats in a +10 ilvl difference between i100 and i150

You can tank easily any i130 while in i100. You'll have troubles tanking i190 if you're in i160.

maybe so. i have been saving up for the IL200 Eso weapon. maybe this will bring it back to how it used to be.

[Phoenicia]

Snip.

So you're saying that based on uneducated guess, you "feel" you parry half the time?

In full ilv 130 PARRY build gear on WAR in 2.5, when level 50 was the cap, my parry rate capped at 26%. That was its "best". That's your 1/4.

Now that the cap is 60, gear is basically reset. Stats have less effect per point. There is no way in hell you can parry anywhere close to 20%.

Since you do not have the tools to see the exact numbers, I really suggest you listen to those who have them. Parry as a stat is crap. Stacking parry on your gear for the sake of parrying is idiocy. Saving wrath for the 10% parry chance is blasphemy.

Steel Cyclone is 800 potency enmity. Flash is 600, Overpower is 600. Steel Cyclone and Overpower benefit from Maim while Flash doesn't. How is Flash better than Steel Cyclone? Party list doesn't show you numbers, it shows a small bar filling up. Again, since you do not have the tools to see the exact numbers, listen to those who have them.

Berserked, Steel Cyclone can easily do 2~3k damage. That would be ~7% of mobs' HP.

All that said, if you still choose to trust your "feels" instead of solid numbers, then you just choose to be bad. I am telling you, don't be that guy.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

it isn't a matter of needing some tool to get an exact number. i can see what is happening while playing the game.

i never actually said Flash was better then Steel Cyclone. however, for some strange reason, Flash is generating more Enmity in a lv60 dungeon for me then Steel Cyclone is. i don't know why, it just is. i can't even push down another players Enmity with Steel Cyclone even the slightest bit through a lv60 dungeon. maybe Enmity generation from Flash isn't gear based and is always a flat-rate?

and again, i never dismissed the potential of Steel Cyclone when combined with one or more buffs.

I think if you like parry so much that you wouldn't drop your rate by 10% for a few seconds, then you should just go ahead and stack all the parry you can.

Go all in, and make a parry warrior. There is no one stopping you. Play the game how you want.

i still use my Wrath for stuff, but mostly only on boss encounters. or large pulls to include some burst damage.

[Phoenicia]

it isn't a matter of needing some tool to get an exact number. i can see what is happening while playing the game.

What you claim is happening cannot be happening. In game math says it cannot be happening. There is no way you can parry more than 26% in the long run. Even if you get a lucky streak over a few seconds, any fight of 2 minutes or longer will skew down to the 26% average. That is IN THE BEST PARRY gear in the game! Right now, we have "bad" gear and parry rates are closer to 15-17%.

i never actually said Flash was better then Steel Cyclone. however, for some strange reason, Flash is generating more Enmity in a lv60 dungeon for me then Steel Cyclone is. i don't know why, it just is. i can't even push down another players Enmity with Steel Cyclone even the slightest bit through a lv60 dungeon. maybe Enmity generation from Flash isn't gear based and is always a flat-rate?

Right there, you ARE saying Flash is better than Steel Cyclone because it generates more enmity for you. You are contradicting yourself.

Flash is 600 potency. It IS gear based, better gear means better Flash. Steel Cyclone is ~800 potency and in ANY gear level, from naked to decked out, Steel Cyclone is always at least 33% better than Flash on non-crit, and almost twice as good on a crit.

and again, i never dismissed the potential of Steel Cyclone when combined with one or more buffs.

Any buff applied to Steel Cyclone, applies to Overpower and Flash. Steel Cyclone is 800 potency, boosting it by any % is the same as boosting anything else by the same %.

i still use my Wrath for stuff, but mostly only on boss encounters. or large pulls to include some burst damage.

Keeping Wrath for ANY situation other than (Burst is in 5 seconds) is the "wrong" way to do it.
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Your information and observations are based on false conjecture and are misguiding newer tanks. But like MythToken said, you play the game whatever way you want. In the end, you only have 2 choices: Play optimally, or play sub-optimally.

[Ralvenom]

i still use my Wrath for stuff, but mostly only on boss encounters. or large pulls to include some burst damage.

This makes no sense to me. Not using Wrath is either a mitigation and dmg loss. Don't sit on Wrath stacks. If you're MT, chances are...you're spending Wrath on Unchained or IB. If you're OT, you should be in Deliverance and spend "Wrath" (it's Abandon, actually) on Fell Cleaves. There is zero reason to sit on Wrath/Abandon stacks. Zero.