On the lack of humanity in our community.

[adn]

emotional genocide

Quoting this sheerly for the hilarity of this combination of words. That aside...

Honey, life isn't fair and a lot of things that happen aren't "right". What you call "dehumanization" isn't limited to this game, or even the internet. It's a problem endemic to the human species as a whole. It exists at a much deeper layer than just people's behavior in online games; it just appears more openly on the internet than in real life because it's easy to get away with antisocial behavior on the internet and not have to suffer the consequences.

Once games like this get big enough the sense of players being "disposable" or "replaceable" becomes very common, which is the driver behind a lot of the behavior you are describing. There isn't a whole lot that can be done about it, I'm very sorry to say. Best thing you can do is keep looking for a place that's right for you.

[Hydrium]

Honey, life isn't fair and a lot of things that happen aren't "right".

What is things parents don't teach their children?

[Kosmos992k]

I often can't change how I feel, but I can change how I act and react because of how I feel and have worked hard to do so.

QFT
This is something that is very wise, and very, very true. It is a piece of wisdom that I honestly think would make the world so much a better place if everyone could understand and apply it to their life.

And so true on how treatments differ, for example, anti-depressants are among the worst things someone with bipolar can take, and can actually make them sicker. There have been studies down however, that find that cognitive therapy actually can help a bipolar patient improve, whether they are on medicine or not, and I personally have found this to be true in my case.

I learned that I can control how I react, but not how others act through cognitive therapy. Sadly, many people do not respect such 'talk therapy' and consider the only solution to be medicinal, when in fact there are many beneficial courses of action that can be taken.

lol, I was gonna stop talking about depression, especially after some of these ignorant comments I've read and received, but yours was just too good and insightful not to reply to. =)

Age and experience sometimes lead to insight. I won't go into particulars but I have some experience of the impacts of depression and bipolar disorder - among other things.

I agree 110% that we control how we react - so we need to focus on our own reactions, emotions and behavior. However, there is one thing I feel that I must add. Just as it is imperative that we learn to cope with and control our own reactions - and disregard the negative actions or perceptions of others, we should also understand and respect the fact that many people are unable to do so.

Due to that, we also need to work on how others react to or treat others. Even though we have no direct control over that, we as members of our communities and society in general, do have a duty to use whatever influence we have to make it clear that our community has higher standards of behavior, and that certain types of behavior are unacceptable. Some would say I live in a self inflicted Utopia, because I believe that we can improve things. Maybe they are right, but I refuse to give in to such pessimism and continue to hope and work for change.

In respect to the OP and FFXIV, our community does face an issue here, and although we will all be individually better off for understanding we control only our own reactions and behavior; I think that the community will only benefit when what I have called bullying is diminished and replaced by a greater sense of humanity.

[Ashkendor]

All those things you describe, those symptoms you listed, they're not just an idea or a concept to me, I actually live them. But because you seem to be on some kind of crusade to prove what depression really is, it appears to me that you never bothered to stop to see exactly who you were addressing your rebuttal to, the very type of person you're supposedly trying to defend with your aggressive comments. A person who deals daily with severe depression. Me. Good intentions or not, your actions seem to be misguided.

And if it works for me to think this way, and it does, then no, I am not wrong to think this way. For me it is a healthy approach and nothing you can say or do will convince me otherwise. For me this is a valid coping method, period. Simple as that.

I replied to you, yes, but the post wasn't meant only for you. Other people read these forums, and if they can take something away from my reply (like the graphs I linked) and have a clearer view of what suffering from depression actually means, that's what I'm aiming for. I didn't think my comments were "aggressive" but then again it wouldn't be the first time that I was misinterpreted that way. I know what I'm trying to say, but often times express it in a way that makes other people think I'm angry or upset when that's simply not the case. I'm not on a "crusade" as you seem to think; how you cope with your depression is very personal and very much up to you. The only reason I even posted is because you were using "depression" interchangeably with "sadness" when to me it's important to note that they're two completely separate (albeit related) things. I just don't want you to think I'm upset or angry. It's actually nice to discuss it with someone that can actually understand what I feel and deal with.

With that said, we're really off topic now and we should probably stop. :3

[YukariOro]

This is something that is very wise, and very, very true. It is a piece of wisdom that I honestly think would make the world so much a better place if everyone could understand and apply it to their life.

I agree with you, life would be much better if people were more aware of what they can and can't control, and their limitations when it comes to controlling others.

I learned that I can control how I react, but not how others act through cognitive therapy. Sadly, many people do not respect such 'talk therapy' and consider the only solution to be medicinal, when in fact there are many beneficial courses of action that can be taken.

I think this is because most people are used to the traditional sit down and spew talk therapy and they really haven't learned or know the difference in how something like cognitive therapy.

Age and experience sometimes lead to insight. I won't go into particulars but I have some experience of the impacts of depression and bipolar disorder - among other things.

I agree 110% that we control how we react - so we need to focus on our own reactions, emotions and behavior. However, there is one thing I feel that I must add. Just as it is imperative that we learn to cope with and control our own reactions - and disregard the negative actions or perceptions of others, we should also understand and respect the fact that many people are unable to do so.

Due to that, we also need to work on how others react to or treat others. Even though we have no direct control over that, we as members of our communities and society in general, do have a duty to use whatever influence we have to make it clear that our community has higher standards of behavior, and that certain types of behavior are unacceptable. Some would say I live in a self inflicted Utopia, because I believe that we can improve things. Maybe they are right, but I refuse to give in to such pessimism and continue to hope and work for change.

In respect to the OP and FFXIV, our community does face an issue here, and although we will all be individually better off for understanding we control only our own reactions and behavior; I think that the community will only benefit when what I have called bullying is diminished and replaced by a greater sense of humanity.

I agree with you, and when I see people bullying, I try to politely speak up. But sometimes the toughest thing to realize, is that sometimes you can't change anything, and that's when you have to learn when you need to retreat and take care of your own. It's a very fine line, that dividing line though. That said, I try really hard to monitor myself and how I act and react, and hope that makes at least some positive impact. =)

I replied to you, yes, but the post wasn't meant only for you. Other people read these forums, and if they can take something away from my reply (like the graphs I linked) and have a clearer view of what suffering from depression actually means, that's what I'm aiming for. I didn't think my comments were "aggressive" but then again it wouldn't be the first time that I was misinterpreted that way. I know what I'm trying to say, but often times express it in a way that makes other people think I'm angry or upset when that's simply not the case. I'm not on a "crusade" as you seem to think; how you cope with your depression is very personal and very much up to you. The only reason I even posted is because you were using "depression" interchangeably with "sadness" when to me it's important to note that they're two completely separate (albeit related) things. I just don't want you to think I'm upset or angry. It's actually nice to discuss it with someone that can actually understand what I feel and deal with.

With that said, we're really off topic now and we should probably stop. :3

First off, let me say I how much I appreciate your polite and civil reply back.

Generally if multiple people feel you come across aggressive, it's probably something you are doing, probably unintentionally I suspect, that is leading others to feel this way. Whether it be your word choice, or because you make assumptions and reading more into what people mean in their posts than they are actually saying. Or it could be as simple as you choosing target your comments to the wrong audience, as you seem to have with myself. I would have thought it would be obvious, given that I clearly stated I suffer from Bipolar Type II depression, that I would be the last person who needed to be educated about depression. And yet it was me you chose to single out from everyone else, intentional or not.

As for your comment about my use of the word "sad," while I did use the word in my posts, I never once used "sad" to describe what depression was like, not sure why you thought I did. That said, it is possible to feel both depressed and sad at the same time I believe. But yes, to me, they are not the same emotion, and I never claimed that they were, despite what you thought.

What I did do, however, was list various unrelated emotions, and this list included "happiness" as well, yet you didn't seem to take offense at my listing happiness, only the word "sad." "Sad" certainly was not the only emotion I listed at the time. If you had taken the time to notice the context I was using them in, you would have seen that I definitely was NOT comparing depression to sadness other than to say they are all emotions, yes very different emotions, but they're both natural human emotions. And yes, some emotions are stronger than others, some are more painful, some feel more good, but they are all still emotions. And yes, I did use the word "like", but that was a descriptive of the word emotion, not the word depression, as you seemed to believe.

That you took offense at my listing a series of unrelated emotions, which I simply listed because they were all emotions, and well...I think your overreaction to something I never actually said speaks for itself.

[MikaIto]

all the emotional stuff aside it really is annoying watching people slowly... well very rapidly shun a class it happened to warrior when 2.0 launched, summoners had to deal with it when final coil first launched due to mp being a problem sure a fix will be coming but with the weekly currency's being exclusive to each individual job and people going for world firsts and clears before 3.1 if you like a class and wanna get it done sadly you gotta put what you like aside until the storm is over and it sucks.

EDIT: one of the biggest things that usually sets people off about this myself included is when you play Astro and do as much of the content as you can then try SCH or WHM and just go well damn this got way easier hey look my cooldowns matter.

[Bishop81]

Once games like this get big enough the sense of players being "disposable" or "replaceable" becomes very common, which is the driver behind a lot of the behavior you are describing. There isn't a whole lot that can be done about it, I'm very sorry to say. Best thing you can do is keep looking for a place that's right for you.

Cynical but does appear to be correct.

Since content requires a group, people will group to get what they want. But that is the extend of the relationship. "You scratch my back, I scratch yours. If you can't scratch my back, I want nothing to do with you." is the motto by which these players operate. Ironically these very players will tell you this is a MMO, that content where the whole group fails if one person messes up is a requirement because it's "social"; on the surface, yes, it's "social", as social as an employee being all smiles towards his jerk boss while wishing he could punch his lights out.

Would be nice if there were group content where players have the opportunity to voluntary, altruistically, help each other out.

[adn]

Cynical but does appear to be correct.

Not cynical; informed. I've played MMOs big and small for a long time now, and in smaller MMOs there is tighter social cohesion, and if you go against the social "norms" or consistently behave antisocially, you will quickly find yourself unable to do anything because nobody wants to associate with you.

FFXIV is what I'd call a "big" MMO, where there are no lasting repercussions for abusing other players because you will likely never see anybody you meet in DF again and if your static kicks you out you can just get a new one or go to a different server. You only get in serious trouble if you do something that can get your account suspended.

[Adire]

Someone else commented that this was a "pretty ignorant statement", and I agree with them. Your statement implies that depression is something that you can control and/avoid. It's not, and based on your other posts you should already know that. However you seem to me to have convinced yourself that your coping mechanisms are somehow able to protect you from depression. Even if that is true for you, that doesn't make it true for *anyone* else. There are many, many forms of depression and many ways for it to express itself. Bipolar disorder is one of those. Again though, you should know already that something that presents a solution, or at least improvement to one person will not necessarily help another since every person is different and each person's depression is unique to them, even if you share the same diagnosis. Anti-depressants help some, not others, the same medication may be miraculous to one, and treacherous to another, cognitive therapy could be curative to one, and drive others into a deeper state. Some depression is primarily based on biochemistry, and some based on stress, life circumstance, environment, behavior and/or history. Suggesting that someone who is depressed should take tranquilizers misses the mark by several light years.

I'm sorry, but you're the ignorant person if you think that staying in a bad environment that triggers, or at least worsens the symptoms of depression is a good idea. Environment is always a factor in any kind of depression and its severity.

I'm sure if you went to a therapist regularly for treatment and told them about how switching jobs in a game makes you feel inhuman and regularly complained to them about the game, they would tell you to remove yourself from the situation.

I was actually told this by a therapist once when I was experiencing depression. I was told to remove myself from a bad environment ASAP. Therapy is a means of "controlling" depression by way of managing its symptoms, and removing yourself from a bad environment is one of the most basic, essential pieces of therapeutic advice you can get when going through any form of depression. A therapist who tells you to remain in a bad environment that is causing you distress is a bad therapist.

You can believe what you want, but please be informed if you're going to give people advice. And please don't try to encourage people to remain in a dangerous environment for them. That is not good or informed advice.

With the way the OP worded things, I do not understand one bit how people can be encouraging them to remain in this game (or not take a break at the least). Whether its ignorance or malicious intent, such advice has no place here, and it's pathetic that CrimsonThunder's advice to just stick it out and push on for absolutely no benefit vs cost to a person's mental health when something is bringing you great pain is getting so many upvotes. But I've come to not expect much from people on these forums. If anyone reading this is being made depressed more than happy by this game or are feeling your depression amplified and you feel you can't take it anymore, please do not feel like you should. If the game is hurting you more than it's making you happy, move on or take a break. That's my advice and likely the advice any good therapist would give you.

And tranquilizers O.o? Really? Don't recall saying that. Please quote me if I mentioned tranquilizers. Manipulating people who haven't read everything I've said isn't nice. I just want people to not remain in a hazardous environment when they can't take the poison anymore. That should be universally good advice.

[Goodberry]

Yoshiyuki, I see you consider yourself a "casual" now. Good call. It's a game. Should be something you do in your leisure time to have fun, dream, hopefully recharge your batteries. Not an unpaid job, or a mission.
Once I read one of the first reviews of WoW, by a reviewer who liked to highlight what was, in his opinion, the "main point" of a game. For WoW he said simply, "Being a hero in a fantasy world". To this day, I think he nailed it for all these games. Let's all simply be heroes and heroines in this fantasy world. Specs, gear, tomes etc. should be a byproduct of playing the game, not the main reasons to play.