#nofunallowed

[D-vide]

As far as triple triad goes, I'm not surprised it was designed around grinds.

I mean, let's look at it as a base concept. Triple Triad is a side-activity that's designed to take a while (even as far back as FFVIII it would take you a while to get 100% completion on all cards, not including the questline to beat the king of cards). Mechanics-wise it's not a game that has standard units in a matter of speaking. It's not like blackjack or old maid or trumps or go fish, which are limited by a standard 52-card deck (meaning you can play as long as you have a 52-card deck). The more "strong" cards you collect, the bigger your chances of winning. And as is common with collectible card games, it becomes less a game of luck/skill and more a game of what deck you choose to play with.

Yeah, but this type of gameplay only starts after you gather 60 cards. I wouldn't have mind getting cards being a great challenge. The thing is, getting most of the cards isn't a challenge, it's a gated, time-based chore. You have to work your way through 60 of these to even compete normally.

Since your deck has such a strong effect on your chances of winning, it is logical to make that part of TT take time to achieve. In addition, unlike FFVIII and FFIX (which have a finite number of assets), FFXIV is constantly growing due to being an MMORPG, so its longevity has to span beyond what we saw in VIII and IX (read: more assets in-game = more cards = more time involved in completing a collection and putting together a deck). Atrophy happens to be the antithesis of collectible card games (hence why Magic: The Gathering and Yu-Gi-Oh revise rules and constantly add cards), so making it finite would go against the whole point of a CCG. Likewise, CCGs by nature take a loooooooong time to complete a collection (this is why you see rare cards going for ridiculous prices in comic book shops and e-bay).

tl;dr - Triple Triad is designed along the lines of collectible card games in real life, and as such will take a long time to collect cards.

Still, you can play those games with all the cards you collect. Also, Yu-gi-oh and Magic have multiple purposes for different cards. TT cards serve one purpose, cost a diffect kind of currency that is far more gated than the usual currency and is handicapped for 66% of collecting. I don't think you can compare it against RL CCG's because the premise is totally different. And I think the premise is what's wrong with it in the first place.

[Khalithar]

Snip

Well if it's going to mirror actual CCG's then I believe the grind was put in the wrong place. You should be able to earn all TT cards through playing TT, the whole point of the side activity in an MMO is to do it when not doing the main dungeon/raid stuff, not do the dungeon/raid stuff so you could do the side activity. Also, your standard booster pack (from hearthstone to yu gi oh to MTG) ALWAYS had at least one rare card in it and while you had no control over which rare card it was or how useful it was, you were always guaranteed one regardless. Also, looking at hearthstone again, there are NPC challenges in the game you have to do for obtaining certain cards and when you complete those challenges and beat those NPC's, you are once more guaranteed those cards after you beat them rather than having to do it again and again.

[Kat_Manx]

They definitely do not understand how to separate fun content from hardcore content. There was a lot of things I was waiting for which ultimately failed...

Triple Triad, Chocobo Racing and gathering MGP is very grindy..so the Golden Saucer became empty after a few weeks. Then other things like when housing arrived it was like, oh yeah it's just gonna cost 50 times the amount of money you've ever made during the entire game.

Don't get me started on glamour either. Some of the items are like.. max level crafting from super rare items.

I'm not saying the game shouldn't have grinding. But that's supposed to be reserved for useful things like relics or whatnot. Spending a month to get the best weapon for your job is okay, spending a month to get a revealing bikini top is not.

[Yukiko]

I am a bit sad how many are talking from TT without knowing it or barely remembering it...
FFVIII is having the best TT system and thats why real life turnaments are based on that one...
FFIX they added RNG to TT and i really got upset, but still... you had a 1 to 5 chance, but i got really angry because they added on top of that additional RNG and the NPC need to actually PLAY the card. (higher ranked NPCs you had not much of a chance to win the whole board, to design the "luck" only around that "option" is naive! it was like 1 of 50 tries to win the whole board and then if you won, the NPC did not play the card you desired - thanks RNG )

To be honest: I did not imagine you could create a worst TT game than it was in FFIX, still FFXIV proven me wrong... How long we have now rigged turnaments? SE is ignoring it.

Just for notes: TT is not a CCG and never was it. CCGs are designed to get money, they are designed that players can never get ALL cards (a reason to bring out new cards monthly). TT is designed to have FUN where you do not collect cards but to have a wide variation of rulesets because of "everyone having the same cards" (a reason why every card is having a weak spot and why there are many rules where you can win with low level cards). You try to compare apples with pears!

About the grinding stuff ingame, i think best to explain is gatherer:
At first running in circles was such a pain but well... since 2.0 with the new system it became fun, i even grown to really like it but... when reaching level 50 nearly EVERYTHING includes WAITING and RNG (hidden). It burns out very quickly to be a part time job where you need DAYS do collect a stack of a "single" thing (mostly because you need HQ for everything)... Just when i thought it could not go worse they have added in 3.0 special spots... Not to mention on top of that the tomestone thing -> if you actually have the power to get them you dont need them any more!

To summ up gathering: up to level 46 its really fun and as it should be (except fishing because RNG). Since level 50 it becomes a burden and only those who think they can make easy gil are loving it. None of those who say they like it do it because they have fun, they do it because they can make good gil with it.

Compared to asia grinder MMOGs FFXIV is having one of the worst RNG based grind systems i have EVER seen! Not because others dont have RNG involved but "others" are having systems or allowing systems which are helping in some way... There are even games where you can automatic grind materials while going on the toilet...

Why do you think most new browsergames having those powerful "quest trackers"?

The 3.0 sightseeing log is much better, still there are suggestions how to improve it (using the echo as example). The players NEVER asked for just finding and leaving, we all agree with SE that sightseeing log can be an eyecatcher and something special, we just dont agree about the RNG and stupid WAITING from 2.0 system...

[Colt47]

Yea the post is making me confused too. You're mad because at the core, FFXIV is a MMORPG?

The fact that an MMORPG has to be the things that annoy the OP is laughable. It's supposed to be a game that is entertaining to some degree. If it just turns to busy work and inter-player competition than it's no longer a game, it's an extension of real life.

Also, I've seen some threads where people are bidding adieu, talk about what was problematic, etc, and there's a lot less going back and forth than when we have something like this even when it's on the same subject. Final Fantasy XIV ARR is far from a perfect game even with Heavensward and it needs a lot of love and fixing to make it really shine properly. They are way too worried about creating set pieces, have no procedural content for replay-ability, and are completely dependent on currency grinders and promotional perks to keep people subbed.

I swear, all I ask for in the AAA industry is if they take to a game model like a theme park design, they also weigh in the cons and bring in at least SOME of the good ideas from exploratory titles like Path of Exile, Dungeons and Dragons Online, etc.

[D-vide]

The fact that an MMORPG has to be the things that annoy the OP is laughable. It's supposed to be a game that is entertaining to some degree. If it just turns to busy work and inter-player competition than it's no longer a game, it's an extension of real life.

Also, I've seen some threads where people are bidding adieu, talk about what was problematic, etc, and there's a lot less going back and forth than when we have something like this even when it's on the same subject. Final Fantasy XIV ARR is far from a perfect game even with Heavensward and it needs a lot of love and fixing to make it really shine properly. They are way too worried about creating set pieces, have no procedural content for replay-ability, and are completely dependent on currency grinders and promotional perks to keep people subbed.

I swear, all I ask for in the AAA industry is if they take to a game model like a theme park design, they also weigh in the cons and bring in at least SOME of the good ideas from exploratory titles like Path of Exile, Dungeons and Dragons Online, etc.

I actually made this topic after a friend of mine who left for 6 months got back and I had to tell them the game just got grindier in all directions. It's saddening to see people leave like that while it could be improved.

[Makeda]

(Side note: the team also needs to stop making skimpy outfits all the time. Seriously, 70% of the glamours is either bathing suits, summer tops, skimpy dresses, amulets or Taffeta stuff)

All of the other MMOs seem to have policies against skimpy outfits... let us have at least ONE mmo that has them, that isn't some weird softcore freak fest like TERA, Scarlet Blades, and Blade and Soul - but just a normal game, where the skimpy outfits are glamorous or pretty rather than skanky and $20-ho-on-the-corner like those other games.

[Stanelis]

I actually agree with the OP. FFXIV tries too hard to keep players playing with tedious grind (and the associated rewards) rather than by the quality of its content.

duh, I don't know how you guys can find that fun...go into a spot...and, that's it lol, of course you'll be burnt out after doing so repeatedly <.<. That's my definition of antifun.

Well it would have been fun if you actually had to go to places you never went before. But as the maps are still very small (yes even those of heavensward), there are no such places.

I'll just say one last thing, because I don't think your neccessarily wrong but WoW was more popular when it was less accessible.

Actually when wow was released, it was the most accessible MMORPG on the market. The strength of WoW is that there is both easy and hard content in the game. Also it is true that blizzard aimed to remove most grinds of the game starting from Burning Crusade.

[Lexia]

#nofunallowed is more imposed by other players then by the dev team. Cause other players be treating it like a job or something "omg you not doing 100% max dps you suck" or what ever other reason they come up with.

[Zumi]

It is a multiplayer game after all most of the stuff in the game is done in groups. The game helps you find stuff with duty finder so what more do you what?