Please let BRDs use Empyrean Arrow and Iron Jaws outside of Wanderer's Minuet

[Geardagas]

Then there would never be any point to turning it off. That sounds incredibly boring. The stance dancing to handle mechanics while maximizing DPS is fun.

Bingo bango bongo!

(That's me agreeing with you 100%)

[dragoelete]

Then there would never be any point to turning it off. That sounds incredibly boring. The stance dancing to handle mechanics while maximizing DPS is fun.

stance dancing implies that you have 2 or more stances to "dance" between and as far as i know there is only 1 for bard...

[Geardagas]

stance dancing implies that you have 2 or more stances to "dance" between and as far as i know there is only 1 for bard...

She's talking about wanderer's minuet being on and off, which creates two different playstyles. Kinda sad that I had to explain that.

[dragoelete]

She's talking about wanderer's minuet being on and off, which creates two different playstyles. Kinda sad that I had to explain that.

i know what they meant but that's not stance dancing much like warriors didn't call turning on and off defiance dancing in 2.0.

[Fishi]

i know what they meant but that's not stance dancing much like healers didn't call turning on and off cleric stance dancing in 2.0.

Kappa
/10char

[dragoelete]

Kappa
/10char

cleric stance is a bit different than defiance as it does 3 things 1. exchange your MND stat for the INT stat 2. increases your damage done by a specific percentage (cant rem the exact amount i think its 10% though) and 3. decreases your healing by 20% on top of the swap of int and mind. so turning on and off cleric stance is literally dancing as you are going from being a healer job to essentially being a DPS job. with warrior in 2.x you were going from a tank job to... a better tank job... (not much of a dance)
edit: now if they added another stance to the game for bard in a later expansion (say a stance that slightly decreases damage but gives your songs increased effects as well as bonus effects) then i could call it stance dancing. as it is your going from dps to... i cant even call it a better dps since your damage is basically the same in comparison to what it was with other jobs in 2.x... but if they added another stance it could be called stance dancing as you would be going from a DPS to a true support...

[softestPAWSintheEAST]

snip

my brain goes ow

[Katchoo]

The issue with stance dancing with WM is that, and this is the second time i will have said this, is that as soon as you turn off WM you become a 2.00 Bard in a 3.00 world.

It's a matter of balance. It kind of assumes that if you turn off WM because you have to move lots that all the other melee jobs are also not DPSing due to mechanise and as we well know this is not always the case.

Naturally there are situations where turning of WM will be the better move and you will be doing more DPS without it than with it but this does not mean you are doing the SAME DPS you would have done with it on. This might seem obi but you then have to compare with other jobs.

Further Edit: On a topic of play style wouldn't a simple solution just be to remove the cast times from WM but KEEP the inability to DPS while moving?

[Warlyx]

Further Edit: On a topic of play style wouldn't a simple solution just be to remove the cast times from WM but KEEP the inability to DPS while moving?

hmmm,SE wants ranged casting .... so not gonna happen , i would love to see some casting removed (iron jaws , and while u are at it add a proper animation ¬¬)

[RiceisNice]

Further Edit: On a topic of play style wouldn't a simple solution just be to remove the cast times from WM but KEEP the inability to DPS while moving?

If they want to keep cast times (which I don't mind, it's just the interaction of it), they'd have to redo 2.0 Bard's toolkit to accommodate a cast time (or at least have their skills function different to accomidate, such as heavy shot's long animation and river of blood). If not that, redo bard as a whole so it's at least a bit different from machinist (which they failed pretty hard to deliver, since machinist at that point was essentially a blank slate but they still gave GB/WM to both of them anyway)

Right now, like I've mentioned, WM is functionally the exact, same skill as machinist's GB, except bard is not a machinist. And because their gameplay is centered/influenced by this skill, their overall gameplay is similar to each other, but only one was ever designed in it with mind. There's very few conceptual differences between the two classes (can you really say sidewinder is different from ricochet as far as functionality is concerned? What about DoT upkeep and buff upkeep?), which can partly be at fault of machinist not having a very innovative ammo system either.