About AST and why their healing is weaker

[Ghishlain]

Preface: While I understand that HPS or Potency/Min is by no means a measure of a player's skill in the healing art, these two metrics are a good way to gauge a healer's potential output and find comparison between the different healers.

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One of the long standing arguments currently going on the healer forum is the fact that AST healing is directly weaker than the output SCH and WHM can output, and I'm here to prove to you this is the case.

Many poster attribute the lesser healer potential of the AST by the fact that they lack any proper cooldown that boosts their healing performance. While this is indeed true, there is a much deeper issue rooted with AST healing as well.

First, let me get a common misconception out of the way.

"AST healing is weaker! Just look at the potency!"

This is mathematically false. Once you adjust the values of AST base toolkit heals by their Sect, they actually come up to be almost perfectly equal.

Cure - 400 Potency / GCD
Physik - 400 Potency / GCD
Diurnal Sect Benefic - 380 Potency @ 2.38 cast = 380 * (2.5/2.38) = 399 Potency / GCD
Nocturnal Sect Benefic - 380 Potency + 5% = 380 *1.05 = 399 Potency / GCD

Cure II - 650 Potency / GCD
Adlo - 600 Potency / GCD when correcting for shields (non crit)
Diurnal Sect Benefic II - 620 Potency @ 2.38 cast = 620 * (2.5/2.38) = 651 Potency / GCD
Nocturnal Sect Benefic - 620 Potency + 5% = 380 *1.05 = 651 Potency / GCD

Medica - 300 Potency / GCD
Succor - 300 Potency / GCD when correcting for shields
Diurnal Sect Helios - 290 Potency @ 2.38 cast = 290 * (2.5/2.38) = 304 Potency / GCD
Nocturnal Sect Benefic - 290 Potency + 5% = 380 *1.05 = 304 Potency / GCD

What do I define as base toolkit for a healer?

1. A low tier single target cure (Cure / Physick / Benefic)
2. A high tier single target cure (Cure II / Adlo / Benefic II)
3. An AoE cure (Medica / Succor / Helios)
4. A means to remove status effects (Esuna / Leeches / Exalted Detriment)
5. A Raise type spell (Raise / Resurrection / Ascend)

The underlying issue with AST heals also lies deeper than the fact they lack any means to boost their healing output.

Consider this data set. What I have compiled here is a full minute of pure single target and "normal" healing. What this entails for each job:

• Diurnal AST - Apply Aspected Benefic at the beginning, casting Benefic until you need to reapply Aspected Benefic, repeat until you reach the 60 second mark.
• Nocturnal AST - Casting Benefic for a full 60 seconds.
• Scholar - Both Scholar and Fairy casting Physick and Embrace repeatedly
• White Mage - Apply Regen at the beginning, casting Cure until you need to reapply Regen, repeat until you reach the 60 second mark.

No potency's were buffed via Divine Seal, Fey Illumination, etc. I assumed Fairy potency to be about 200 as my Embraces currently are 1400 and my Adlo are about 2100 as an i186 (I think) SCH w/ an i180 weapon.

The results:

• Diurnal AST - 10,740 Potency / Min
• Nocturnal AST - 9,576 Potency / Min
• Scholar - 13,600 Potency / Min
• White Mage - 11,400 Potency / Min

So, even without any healing boosters, we can already see ASTs are already weaker. Though the values don't look dramatically different, let's put that into perspective.

For a Diurnal AST's 10,740 Potency to catch up with a WHMs 11,400 potency, they will need to cast Benefic II three times instead of Benefic. With 21 casts of Benefic, that means every seventh Benefic needs to be replaced with Benefic II.

Even with a Time Dilation on Aspected Benefic, you're basically reducing the amount of Aspected Benefic cast in that one minute cycle by one and replacing that cast with a Benefic (+190) for a total of 10,930 and thus will still need to replace two Benefics with Benefic II.

This methodology doesn't even begin to account for the fact that the White Mage has Freecure and should on average get two Freecures outta that chain of Cures.

And... let's not even go into how abysmal Nocturnal AST is compared to any of the above. And also how difficult it would be for AST to catch up with the number SCH can output.

What is (part of) the Real Issue?

The issue stems from the fact that AST lacks the tools to normalize HP damage. Both WHM and SCH get a tool in the sense of Regen and Embrace respectively. While Diurnal AST does get the very same tool, their tool is much weaker (100 potency / tick - 790 Potency Total) and must be applied much more frequently (18s Aspected versus 21s Regen versus Never need to reapply Fairy!). These spells are generally low impact spells overall but do accumulate into something more.

If you look at it from an GCD time frame

• Diurnal AST - 482 Potency / GCD
• Nocturnal AST - 399 Potency / GCD
• Scholar - 566 Potency / GCD
• White Mage - 525 Potency / GCD

In general, Scholar and White Mage output more potency / GCD than ASTs would. And even though AST has lower MP costs on their spells, they also lack the MP tools that SCH and WHM has. If they are forced to use Benefic II more often to stay at the same pace WHM and SCH are (when they aren't even using their own buffs / abilities), they will go OOM much faster than their counter parts.

A Potential Solution

For Dirurnal ASTs, I feel the easiest fix is to boost the potency of their HoT tick, and even perhaps the potency at application. I kinda feel like changing Aspected Benefic to a 205 Potency + 130 tick (total 985) would at least bring the values closer together.

Nocturnal AST is... an entirely different beast. It almost feels like S-E wants you to just heal harder on this Sect. So, with that being said, it almost feels like they should add a MP reduction on healing spells while in this Sect. It might sound a bit absurd, but something in the vein of 10% feels right and promote Nocturnal AST as the "get the most bang for your buck" healer.

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Thank you for reading through my thoughts. Any thoughts, comments, or criticisms you'd like to add, just reply below

[Edit] Had to adjust Diurnal's sect potency/GCD average due to forgetting to account for the haste factor.

[Edit2] Trying to put a bit more clarity in my thoughts.

[Edit3] Still messing up Diurnal's sect potency/GCD. . . Third time's a charm?

[RichardButte]

While that would definitely help, I think it's the emergency healing options that SCH/WHM just have such a better lock on that puts AST so squarely in 3rd place as a healer.

With a WHM/SCH, the group can afford to screw up more times, and when you're pushing progression content, there WILL be screw-ups.

And TBH, even in level 60 dungeons when the group is bad and stands in everything, I've gone OoM on AST just trying to keep people alive.

By design, you cannot indefinitely heal stupid, but SCH can heal stupid a hell of a lot longer than AST can.

[Ghishlain]

While that would definitely help, I think it's the emergency healing options that SCH/WHM just have such a better lock on that puts AST so squarely in 3rd place as a healer.

With a WHM/SCH, the group can afford to screw up more times, and when you're pushing progression content, there WILL be screw-ups.

And TBH, even in level 60 dungeons when the group is bad and stands in everything, I've gone OoM on AST just trying to keep people alive.

By design, you cannot indefinitely heal stupid, but SCH can heal stupid a hell of a lot longer than AST can.

Indeed, there are a lot of small issues that need to be tuned to help AST out. This particular math was focusing primarily on the fact AST lacks healing in general but they do need something that can boost their output temporarily as well and/or more emergency buttons to use. ED is great so I would lean towards just more output boosting.

[SuzakuCMX]

First, let me get a common misconception out of the way.

"AST healing is weaker! Just look at the potency!"

This is mathematically false. Once you adjust the values of AST heals that share a similar function as their healing partners by their Sect, they actually come up to be almost perfectly equal.

And then you go on to say that their overall potency is weaker due to differences in Regen and SCH Embrace >.>

[Ghishlain]

And then you go on to say that their overall potency is weaker due to differences in Regen and SCH Embrace >.>

Indeed. I know it's splitting hairs, but I feel it's an important enough distinction to make. I personally consider the following a "baseline" healing kit.

1. A low tier single target cure
2. A high tier single target cure
3. An AoE cure
4. A means to remove status effects
5. A Raise type spell

What allows SCH and WHM to excel beyond AST's normal healing is the fact they have a HoT-like effect that is more potent than AST, or in the case of Nocturnal, the lack of a HoT at all.

The one thing about the AST discussion that has always grinded my gears was the fact that people claim "hey, this spell is 20 potency lower" is the reason why AST is actually weaker when the real reason is because they don't have these minor boosts to normalizing HP values.

That's also why my suggestion in Noct was to reduce healing magic costs. This way there's more reason to use the higher tier Benefic II in lieu of having an HoT like effect for more front loaded and efficient Potency/MP heals. Also why I suggested a slight buff in the same vein to Diurnal Aspected Benefic.

My over arching goal in any of my posts lately regarding AST is try to find ways to balance the job while making them a bit more unique than their WHM and SCH counterparts.

In some cases, I just like to babble because it helps me get my thoughts on paper but I do hope my babble can also spur some discussion as well.

[SuzakuCMX]

My over arching goal in any of my posts lately regarding AST is try to find ways to balance the job while making them a bit more unique than their WHM and SCH counterparts

My suggestion would be to tie the card mechanic into their healing. For example, make Synastry a permanent buff and change it from what it is now to something that applies a small regen (50 potency?) in Diurnal for 15s on the Synastry target, and a 5% Max HP heal and shield for Nocturnal . This way their overall healing is much closer to WHM/SCH and you have some reason to use cards even if they're not optimal at the moment.

Of course that doesn't make the card buffs themselves suck any less or fix the fact that their emergency healing/healing cooldowns are lackluster.

[Roxas_Andrade]

For Dirurnal ASTs, I feel the easiest fix is to boost the potency of their HoT tick, and even perhaps the potency at application. I kinda feel like changing Aspected Benefic to a 205 Potency + 130 tick (total 985) would at least bring the values closer together.

I agree with you completely. But there's one more comparison to be done that is not GCD-based, but 1-skill-based:
Regen has a total of 1050 while Asp.Bene has a total potency of 790
DS+Regen has a total potency of 1365 spread through 18sec while TD+Asp.Bene has a total potency of 1290 through 33 sec

What SE proposes is that AST shouldn't be as potent as WHM and with your suggested change, DS+Regen would still have a 1365pot x 18sec against 1635pot x 33 sec of TD+Asp.Bene. Making it still worse than the first if you see HpS, but way better if you compare totals per skill.

I really liked your idea, but I guess Asp.Bene should be reworked to something like 150pot + 150potx10sec. Then TD+Asp.Bene would have a total 1350 potency through 25 sec. As Asp.Bene is instant and would have an upfront heal that regen hasn't, the only problem would be the short duration, but it would also make AST more like an instant-healer, which seems to match it's current playstyle.

Another change I'd like to suggest for AST is make Synastry like an infinite buff, that would end upon reuse. You would be able to cast it on a party member - let's say the main tank - and he would gain like 5-10% hp from all healing you do. Even AoE. Even single-target heals on the tank itself. With that, you would compensate the lack of healing potency that AST has now. Or you could put synastry on a prey target, or on a random DPSthats been hurt and keep healing the tank. Would also make AST unique.

Well, let's wait to see what SE does in the future...

[Vlady]

Indeed. I know it's splitting hairs, but I feel it's an important enough distinction to make. I personally consider the following a "baseline" healing kit.

1. A low tier single target cure
2. A high tier single target cure
3. An AoE cure
4. A means to remove status effects
5. A Raise type spell

What allows SCH and WHM to excel beyond AST's normal healing is the fact they have a HoT-like effect that is more potent than AST, or in the case of Nocturnal, the lack of a HoT at all.

The one thing about the AST discussion that has always grinded my gears was the fact that people claim "hey, this spell is 20 potency lower" is the reason why AST is actually weaker when the real reason is because they don't have these minor boosts to normalizing HP values.

That's also why my suggestion in Noct was to reduce healing magic costs. This way there's more reason to use the higher tier Benefic II in lieu of having an HoT like effect for more front loaded and efficient Potency/MP heals. Also why I suggested a slight buff in the same vein to Diurnal Aspected Benefic.

My over arching goal in any of my posts lately regarding AST is try to find ways to balance the job while making them a bit more unique than their WHM and SCH counterparts.

In some cases, I just like to babble because it helps me get my thoughts on paper but I do hope my babble can also spur some discussion as well.

Imagine if they could stance dance and have access to both regen and the shield as was originally designed before the game's release?

Your post is once more well thought out. It is like there is a dr. Jekyll and Hyde side of you and I agree a method to temporarily boost our strengths somehow redesigning the two horrible cooldowns we possess is something that would fix us.

Also something so simple to throw any monkey wrench into napkin math is best case scenario's cannot be easy put to formula when half of that healing becomes overheal. If you want to do a real analysis it should be from the basis of damage taken during savage modes to healing output. If the Astro can cover that then the issue should be void regardless that white has higher burst potential when its combined with its cooldowns.

[Luvbunny]

You forgot to add Fairy heal potency and Rouse. And Fairy Regen, and 20% heal potency to party members, and 20% magic damage reduction. Those abilities alone, literally DESTROY any chance of AST to ever be in comparable to SCH. I can easily deal with stupid, and do DPS, while fairy is on rouse, and all abilities on manual control. I cannot babysit stupid as AST, and when you constantly draw "shit" cards three times in a row, there is something seriously wrong with this job.

There are some abilities in AST that could and should be tweaked to make it comparable to the other two jobs. I am all about really, seriously, just OVERPOWERED those damn card buffs already FFS... Give AST a much HIGHER LONGER BETTER refresh. Make the shield heal MORE and critical, since as AST, we have no fairy. Make our card buffs last 25 seconds. And for the love of god, get rid of the idiotic reduce potency when we can cast the buffs as AOE. The Card Buffs is AST trump calling card, make them REALLY GOOD, since the random factor will make sure that it will be decent buffs but not going to make the job OP. Heck, they can code so that you will never draw the same buffs in a row for all I care.

[Assirra]

My over arching goal in any of my posts lately regarding AST is try to find ways to balance the job while making them a bit more unique than their WHM and SCH counterparts.

In some cases, I just like to babble because it helps me get my thoughts on paper but I do hope my babble can also spur some discussion as well.

Make the card system an actual part of our healing.

The whole system feels incredible tacked on with only store/reasons.

It doesn't help our heals in any way (bar arrow on ourselfs).

Remove the whole "buff other people" or at least add a "when used on self give x buff".
Currently it's a system that is just dangling behind us that takes valuable spellslots where other tools (hint healer tools) should have been.