Something need to be done about BAD DPS.

[ShaneDawn]

If only it were as easy as that, right?

Not everyone can have friends, FC, LSs, acquintaces or set PF apparently.

Tbh it's really easy to avoid queuing any content where dps may be an issue alone.

I agree that the dps players in this game need more guidance tho. SE should add a personal persor, so people can keep track of their personal progress to develop themselves. They should also make the class quests teach you the basic relativity between the skills, so everyone *should* have even the most basic knowledge about how their skills work and interact with each other. You can't cure bad though.

[Aomine1992]

Eh....the same could be said about tanks who pull more then their gear allow or healers who can't heal themselves out of a paper bag, all these additions to the game would be a waste if you can't change the person behind the character....

I think ppl bag a bit to much on dps yes there are some bad ones I mean really bad but dps is what you get the most of so of course we don't notice the tank who turns Ravana everytime the seeing side comes up during warlord shell or the healer who didn't bother to heal anyone but the tank leaving the rest of the pt to die during the raid wide dmg which I was told was my fault like yea let me dodge raid wide dmg >_> lol that was my rant for the night #ravanaEXproblems

[sirDarts]

Eh....the same could be said about tanks who pull more then their gear allow or healers who can't heal themselves out of a paper bag, all these additions to the game would be a waste if you can't change the person behind the character....

I think ppl bag a bit to much on dps yes there are some bad ones I mean really bad but dps is what you get the most of so of course we don't notice the tank who turns Ravana everytime the seeing side comes up during warlord shell or the healer who didn't bother to heal anyone but the tank leaving the rest of the pt to die during the raid wide dmg which I was told was my fault like yea let me dodge raid wide dmg >_> lol that was my rant for the night #ravanaEXproblems

The hell are you talking about?

When you get a bad Tank, you notice INSTANTLY! And they get called out or kicked or both!
When you get a bad Healer, you notice INSTANTLY! And they get called out or kicked or both!
But when you get a bad DPS? Unless they are bad because they can't dodge, you CAN'T tell them anything, you can't kick them, because you are NOT ALLOWED to know that they are bad.

THAT'S why people cry about bad DPS, because bad DPS are babied by SE!

[MeiUshu]

@SirDarts

You are the very reason why parsers shouldnt be allowed, you want a tool as such just to support the fact that you will kick another player and not to use it as an improvement tool, but as a justification for your self entitlement to say that you are the best and the rest sucks, this being true or not.

I will keep saying it, you cant give a tool for adults to children and in here as it is almost impossible to say who is what, since you can have player well udneraged this meaning without an ounce of knowldge on how to deal with other people in group, such a tool would well be abused unfortunately, not to mention that figures NEED to ne interpreted and put back into context of a given fight.

Might want to re-think your own logic.

Mei

[MysteryNotes]

@MeiUshu

I don't see any entitlement in his post.
Hes simply stating that its very easy to notice bad tanks and heals, because they are in crucial positions in the group.

I notice you don't even have any characters above 50 listed. Which means you're not qualified to talk about bad dps since you've clearly never been in a position that requires DPS to pass checks.

Anyway, you seem to be under the impression that people want to kick ANY dps who is doing slightly sub optimal dps. This is not true.
This thread is referring to the terrible DPS who cannot even perform their basic rotation.

Pretty much any DPS with law gear and a 180 weapon can put out 600 dps with a basic lazy 1-2-3 rotation.

If it comes to the point where the DPS is being outdamaged by the tank, then they clearly cannot do their job, and deserve a wake up call.

[sirDarts]

@SirDarts

You are the very reason why parsers shouldnt be allowed, you want a tool as such just to support the fact that you will kick another player and not to use it as an improvement tool, but as a justification for your self entitlement to say that you are the best and the rest sucks, this being true or not.

I will keep saying it, you cant give a tool for adults to children and in here as it is almost impossible to say who is what, since you can have player well udneraged this meaning without an ounce of knowldge on how to deal with other people in group, such a tool would well be abused unfortunately, not to mention that figures NEED to ne interpreted and put back into context of a given fight.

Might want to re-think your own logic.

Mei

It's funny that you turned it over to me.
I've NEVER said that I call the people out, or that I kick them (unless they are CLEARLY detrimental to the finishing of the instance and don't show any signs of progress).
So yeah, don't add stuff to the things I say.

But hey the fact that you can see that you are doing bad, or even get called out on it, as Tank or Healer makes you see your mistakes and get better.
DPS don't know they are doing bad! 1) There is two of them. 2) They can't see their numbers. 3) They can't see the groups numbers. 4) They can't get told that they are doing bad.


For example. I've had a BLM in Brayflox yesterday who was pulling less damage than the healer. But he was easily carried through the instance because there are no DPS checks there. Did I tell him? No, because I am not allowed to tell him, I am not allowed to know he was doing less DPS than the healer. It's incredibly easy to get carried as DPS through almost all content up to Bismarck, so he might NEVER know he is doing a terrible job. And maybe he would be willing to improve, but you can't improve if you don't know you are doing bad!

[Greyfrost]

@MeiUshu

snip.

Basically this, we're not mindless scatterbrain that kicks everyone that's not doing the job's best performance, we just want some decent results.

And to achieve that "decent" result doesn't require you to research that much or even do number crunching.

[Asierid]

Stuff

Quite frankly, I'll kick the first douchenozzle that walks into a DF run cross classing skull sunder and spamming it on mobs while telling me to shove it when I give him advice. I don't need a parser for that. I can easily do the same thing with or without it. There's a distinct difference that you are failing to see. Tools don't turn people into assholes, people are assholes regardless.

However. If you are going to put rather tight dps checks into a game, then you need to allow those people to see who is not pulling their weight. GMs can already see if a kick is warranted or not and judge accordingly. Why not allow parsers and let them police as usual?

Course I can understand of you want to get the easy carry and use a lame excuse like that. Least don't lean back while you're on my shoulders then.

[MeiUshu]

@Asierid

I am fine what that, I agree you can see who is doing the best they can or doing nothing, you dont need a parser for that, frankly, if you have the time to look what is happenign around you and findo ut the culprit in my opinion you are not either doing all you could since your concentration is elsewhere, but that is just my vision. What I am saying is about people that want a justification to when they kick a player and a parser would give them the NUMERICAL reason to do it, and that NUMERICAL reason is a cold reason based on nothign as it does not take into account the possible factors that happen during a fight that could make a DPS not be in a position to give its maximum...

Parsers are for the people able to understand the use of such a tool and what it is PRIMARALY meant for, what I see in all these threads is peopel wnating the parser to throw others out, not to improve themselves or,e ventually, give tips to others. Remember also that tolerance works both ways, you want to play as you think is best even though someone else wants to find what is ebst for him and that may not be what you foresee.

People call bad what is not like them or not as they foresee things to be...think of this

Mei

[sirDarts]

@Asierid

I am fine what that, I agree you can see who is doing the best they can or doing nothing, you dont need a parser for that, frankly, if you have the time to look what is happenign around you and findo ut the culprit in my opinion you are not either doing all you could since your concentration is elsewhere, but that is just my vision. What I am saying is about people that want a justification to when they kick a player and a parser would give them the NUMERICAL reason to do it, and that NUMERICAL reason is a cold reason based on nothign as it does not take into account the possible factors that happen during a fight that could make a DPS not be in a position to give its maximum...

Parsers are for the people able to understand the use of such a tool and what it is PRIMARALY meant for, what I see in all these threads is peopel wnating the parser to throw others out, not to improve themselves or,e ventually, give tips to others. Remember also that tolerance works both ways, you want to play as you think is best even though someone else wants to find what is ebst for him and that may not be what you foresee.

People call bad what is not like them or not as they foresee things to be...think of this

Mei

If you have time to look at another player's rotation during hard content like Bismarck EX or AS:1, you most likely have time to do more damage yourself.
So no, there is no way to see who is not pulling their weight out of 4 DPS in a hard instance. Not without a parser. And the worst thing about it is that not even that player knows that he is not pulling his own weight. He has no way to know. He might think that he is doing the best possible rotation, and thus he will never even consider looking up a guide or asking someone.

And yes, if someone is detrimental to the successful clearing of the content, they NEED to be removed. Why should you leave and hope that you will get 7 new people who all can pull their weight, when you can just replace one?
If someone is playing lazy, and they don't care, and just want to press 1-2-3 and nothing else, while the rest wants to actually try clearing, that equals to "difference in playstyle" and is confirmed to be a legit reason to kick someone.

Also yes, Numbers are cold, but they don't lie, they also aren't subjective, and biased = they are fair.


Also stop being so apologetic, people mostly call bad what is bad. Not pulling more DPS than a tank as DPS is BAD it's not "different" it's just plain bad. This is not a MOBA where you need split-second decision making, perfect positioning, and fast reaction times, most stuff gives you more than a second time to do shit. And if you are unable to do THAT, you probably shouldn't join hard content.