A suggestion regarding height.

[Jin-]

Personally i don't see issue with the heights in game. Its pretty much following the real world human heights with some NPC random exceptions with special body sizes. Yes they are not "normal" when it happens in real world that someone is suddenly 2.72 meter long. It is a super rare case which should not be included to game except for NPCs and their personal story

And normally females are shorter than males so i don't see the issue here.

About those rare long/short people
Unless you guys want that special snowflake stuff which would be weird because it is special case for a reason (no reason, just mistake in human genes/dna)

Personally I don't think proportions would be an issue if you scale them up equally:



A forum is there for suggestions and general feedback, I don't get why people feel the need to discuss technical side of things like they were the developers themselves.

I don't see it as much of a problem as an artistic choice but I'm also all up for more character customization options.

Wou that looks stupid. Like a little girl with just increased height.

[LineageRazor]

Wou that looks stupid. Like a little girl with just increased height.

I disagree; in fact, I was surprised at how natural it looked, compared to what I expected. Even large-sized, the female Au Ra still has shoulders that are less broad than the male's; average torso width is similar as well, allowing for the female curvature. Arms and legs are about as long as the male's, though less muscular. The head looks like it might be a bit too large, but that might be an illusion caused by the hairstyles (the male's poofy hair likely makes his face look smaller than it actually is, while the reverse is true for the female's tighter 'do.) It looks fine.

Regardless, as I mentioned in another thread, I doubt there are ever going to be any changes of this kind on existing races. Plenty of people who designed their characters designed them because they liked the aesthetics they already have; change them around, and suddenly their characters don't match their vision anymore, through no fault of the player. Admittedly, something like this (increasing the height range) isn't quite so bad since it doesn't affect existing players, but I still don't see SE going back and making any adjustments at all to existing races.

The best we can hope for is that they'll do better next time. So, there's still value in making noise about it - it lets SE know that folks aren't happy with the decision they made, so they won't make the same decision next time. Just don't get your hopes up about actually changing Au Ra. The way they are now is how they're gonna stay.

[Risvertasashi]

What this game already does is have somewhat equal hight between genders (if you go with F 100 and M 0)

I think that's the very issue. OP & others would like the ranges to overlap, not "maximum value for females ends where the minimum for men begins".

Secondly, technical issues do block feature development. So yes, it's worth discussing (IMO anyways). If a dev swoops in to say "we can't do this for technical reasons" or even "actually we could do this pretty easily with our engine", it's not like no one will believe them.

I disagree; in fact, I was surprised at how natural it looked, compared to what I expected.

I can think of 99 words to describe that upscaled Au Ra F and "natural" ain't one.

[Kaedan94]

I disagree; in fact, I was surprised at how natural it looked, compared to what I expected.

That's because all that poster did was take a screenshot and enlarge it. They didn't actually scale up the model in-engine. If they had done the latter, you would see how utterly disproportionate it would be, and how it wouldn't fit within model parameters and the hit box.

Secondly, technical issues do block feature development. So yes, it's worth discussing (IMO anyways). If a dev swoops in to say "we can't do this for technical reasons" or even "actually we could do this pretty easily with our engine", it's not like no one will believe them.

That's the thing... we don't need a dev to swoop in here and say it, because it's obvious to anyone with modeling experience.

That, and it was a design choice. They specifically decided to make a large size difference between Au Ra males and females. And there's no issue with the other races.

[Samcaesar]

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"Take a screenshot and enlarge it" You mean scale it to the size of the guy's picture right? Because that's literally what she did and that's literally how "height" in this game works. Heck I would search around for 3rd party software to do it myself, but I'm pretty sure it's against ToS to use something like that. Can you please explain, what on earth are you talking about with these "model parameters and the hit box", because currently it sounds like you're taking terms you know that are associate with models and are applying them to sound like you know what you're talking about. There's a universal hitbox in the game for players, otherwise you'd see people min maxing with Lalafell because of "smaller hitboxes" or with Roegadyn because "their large hitbox lets them have a larger reach for melee" or something.

Like seriously, literally every model in the game scales like this just fine, look at whenever a Roegadyn uses a chocobo compared to when a Lalafell uses a chocobo, they sure didn't redesign chocobos for the two of them despite massive size growth. Or what about Battle in Big Keep whenever you shrink down? It's not like the model looks off proportion or something, just small as heck. Or how about all the bosses which are just upscaled versions or mobs?

Don't act like you know so much about modeling yourself unless if you're going to go into depth about it instead of flinging out terms. Talk is cheap.

It was a design choice to not have girl Roegadyn or male Miqo'te, and we've got those in the game now, not like this would be the first time devs have gone back on "design choices".

[Kaedan94]

"Take a screenshot and enlarge it" You mean scale it to the size of the guy's picture right? Because that's literally what she did and that's literally how "height" in this game works.

No, that's not at all what they did. There was no proper scaling done at all. That's precisely what I'm talking about. If the model was actually scaled, and not simply a screenshot enlarged and eyeballed, that would show exactly what the problem would be. As for the hit box, yes, it is a standard size for all models... but scaling up the Au Ra female to the same height as the male would put it's parameters outside the hit box. The fact you can't understand the first two points means you definitely wouldn't understand a technical explanation with jargon.

It was a design choice to not have girl Roegadyn or male Miqo'te, and we've got those in the game now, not like this would be the first time devs have gone back on "design choices".

Not having male miqote or female Roes was not a design choice, that was a simply a choice, or more specifically a content choice. Once they decided to add those two genders, then they made design choices about them (though to be fair, the female Roe's design was already decided with Merylweb) about how they looked.

When they decided to include the Au Ra (a content decision) they made a choice about how they would look (a design choice). And that choice was that females would be much shorter and more petite than males. If they had wanted the females to be able to be as tall as the men, they would have designed it that way. But they didn't.

[BunnyChain]

That's because all that poster did was take a screenshot and enlarge it. They didn't actually scale up the model in-engine. If they had done the latter, you would see how utterly disproportionate it would be, and how it wouldn't fit within model parameters and the hit box.

Well that's pretty close to how the scaling works in-game:



At 0, 100 and then my scaled up 0-version for comparison.

You do not change any proportions when scaling it up.

More for Au'Ra, since people like to focus on that race:



Again, no proportions change.


It would be better if we had good lore on the matter too.
Right now, from what I can tell, it's:

Why is there a "gross disproportion in body mass"?
Lore: Yes.

[Samcaesar]

Snip

It's SE's lore, they can always change it. "Au Ra are generally have massive sexual dimorphism, this mixed clan "Xaela" tribe's unique thing is it doesn't do that".

What roots are you talking about?

Snip

Well no duh, the tallest guy in real life was 8'7, so pretty sure you're not as tall as the tallest guys in real life either. Unless if I'm in a room with a bunch of really tall guys, I'm still taller than the average guy. Changing the Au Ra to allow it as an option doesn't kills the design decision, if it's listed as something rare then the racial design remains perfectly fine while also giving players more options.

I don't get why you're so offended over the idea of the heights being equalized for the sexes of each race, it gives players more significant options with regards to character customization without taking anything except for the ability to go from a third of an inch in height to two thirds of an inch for each height slider tick. We don't have massive giants, Elves, scaly people, and cat people in real life, and yet having girls that are just as tall as the guys are when you stamp your foot in the ground and go "Sorry, that's not like real life so I don't approve!"

Snip

Yeah seriously, if the proportions looked odd whenever they were big, they looked odd whenever they were small too. Let's be honest folks if you wanna say "Girl Au Ra that big have stupidly big heads!" the big heads aren't new, you're just now noticing it.

You know what I'd love? If SE actually took the time to explain why on earth the Au Ra women can't be tall, because currently it's an arbitrary and absolutely nonsensical "lol just cause". Seriously, there's a tribe that practiced selective breeding in an attempted to make their tribe taller and it only works for the men, while the women stayed as short as ever. I'm sorry SE, but that's literally not how it works, if selective breeding manages to cause height growth for the guys, it'd do the same for the girls as well.

Like.. This is a weird race with plenty of "weird biology = unique tribe!" sorta instances with the Xaela, like the tribe with a high twin birthrate or how one tribe's thing is they spent centuries up in snowy glacial environment and now their skin tone has changed to be all rustic red (Which seems to be an anomaly as it's the unique tribe's thing). Heck the Au Ra themselves don't even follow their own lore, guy Raen have like light brown scales and Yugiri has freaking rainbow scales, Raen are to have "brilliant white scales", while girl Xaela have dark blue scales and not "lustrous black". I really don't see why "And tribe x managed to find a way to encourage immense high growth in the women of the race, their women easily standing out compared to the normally short Auri women." or "Tribe y's men have a notable distinct trait of not going through the massive growth spurt that Auri men normally experience" is such a bizarre and rejected idea, it doesn't even betray the race as it puts this as a rare, unique trait of the tribe.

Thank you for posting that gif and those edits by the way! I haven't had the time to do it myself.

[FallenArisen0990]

Wall of Text.

Here, look at this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YpbIO9Q17lY

If it ain't this, it's not happening. This is what it's all about. People know by now that females get the most love then males. This has never changed and most likely never will. JP and NA are completely two different beast. (Idk about EU so I can't really comment on them.) Gender equality is about 99% nonexistence in JRPGs. Teenagers appeals more to JP while Adults appeal more to NA. Hell, perfect example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8wqe3EWWFc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBk-u8nuFvY

NA/EU got the version with the Adult (Nier), which was the original main character. JP got the version with Teen (Nier) which was the character later created specifically for them. Personally, I loved both the Father/Daughter and Brother/Sister themes from both of them.

There is only 3 things that are a must in all JP games. Jiggle effects, Fan Service, and Lolis. All females have Jiggle effects? Check. All Females have Fan Service attire and/or animations? Check. Do we have our mandatory Lolis? Double Checked. The 3 laws of JP animations and gaming. Now Moe. Another semi mandatory trait with not only in lolis but with young females in general. This is why we have more Moeish type females than Mature type females. Just to create that illusion of balance which we all know really isn't there. Many have come to accept this as other have not. It's best to accept it and more on or go play something else.

Just because the game version was sexy, this one is even more sexy in animation form.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmssMlnbO-Y

Bonus: Even more sexier than the other two. Moe~ 4 Life!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvYY8VAs_vI

[Niwashi]

Teenagers appeals more to JP while Adults appeal more to NA.

So in an internationally marketed MMO, they should focus on making sure that the character creation is flexible enough to allow players to choose either one. I don't mind that players who want to can make childlike moe Auri girls. I do mind that we don't have the option to make any other kind.