Something need to be done about BAD DPS.

[LunaHoshino]

I have never, ever seen anyone care about DPS output in a dungeon unless it was causing actual issues (the healer going OOM trying to keep the tank alive because things were dying too slowly). I'm sure it happens occasionally, but it is not a common thing at all.

People don't even care about DPS in story mode trials unless, again, it is causing problems. The only time I've seen people raise it as an issue is in things like EX Primals and Coil, where doing optimum DPS usually DOES matter. And, quite frankly, you shouldn't even be attempting the hardest tier of content until you are at least competent at your job to begin with.

[Franchesca]

If you're bad, expect a kick from me. If you came with your friends and they can tolerate your play style, then good, kick me instead.

I will not sit in an hour long dungeon because some people refuse to learn.

[Gardes]

I have never, ever seen anyone care about DPS output in a dungeon unless it was causing actual issues (the healer going OOM trying to keep the tank alive because things were dying too slowly). I'm sure it happens occasionally, but it is not a common thing at all.

Oh no, I care about it all the time. Even in dungeons. I care about the dps when I have 2 melees who chose to single target different targets in vault and I'm aoeing 4 targets and a snapshot of the mob hps are like 80, 80, 60, 60%. That's is terribly depressing (If you're confused, you may have low dps). I have played arr since launch and I'm tired of the abuse or no response when I either provide advice or instructions so my options are either leaving or staying and enduring it. Both are punishments.

[Odett]

snip

You could also argue that someone saying "we don't all play like drones" after someone says that a DPS's damage is lower than a PLD with Shield Oath on is purposely trying to derail a topic. Not one person in this thread has argued that you must play 100% efficiently all the time. Some players have said that they DO like doing that (myself included, because seeing big numbers is how I have fun), but no one has argued that everyone, or anyone, must do this. Instead, it's the same players using these "but nobody is perfect" arguments that try to derail the topic. Point of the matter is, if your DPS is less than a PLD with Shield Oath on, then as a DPS, you are not pulling your weight in a group. Does this matter in a roulette or most of this game's content? No, not really, it only makes the fight slower, but if a group is failing to meet a DPS check and you fall under this category, then you have every right to be either talked to to see what the problem is, or kicked.

[Welsper59]

You could also argue that someone saying "we don't all play like drones" after someone says that a DPS's damage is lower than a PLD with Shield Oath on is purposely trying to derail a topic. Not one person in this thread has argued that you must play 100% efficiently all the time. Some players have said that they DO like doing that (myself included, because seeing big numbers is how I have fun), but no one has argued that everyone, or anyone, must do this. Instead, it's the same players using these "but nobody is perfect" arguments that try to derail the topic. Point of the matter is, if your DPS is less than a PLD with Shield Oath on, then as a DPS, you are not pulling your weight in a group. Does this matter in a roulette or most of this game's content? No, not really, it only makes the fight slower, but if a group is failing to meet a DPS check and you fall under this category, then you have every right to be either talked to to see what the problem is, or kicked.

Definitely. I was just stating why it comes up repeatedly. The drones comment was unnecessary, but I don't think I'd call that a derail attempt, rather than just someone "shockingly" insulting another person or group on the interwebz lol.

Lack of details, even if in some cases completely unnecessary, tends to bring up additional worries. Just how it is, and can sometimes be quite valid. Like in the context of the OP, while the PLD with Shield Oath was mentioned, are we talking 4-man dungeons here? Leveling content? An unrealistic expectation of 2 MNKs in a 4-man dungeon not successfully AoEing tons of mobs down as fast as BLMs would? Ex/Alex? Gear differences? I'm fairly certain a PLD in Shield Oath with Alex and Eso gear will outperform a fresh 60, even moreso a fresh BRD or MCH, for example. Etc. Lots of points not mentioned that can bring up a flag to pursue a counter argument.

[ziddyt]

"People have a right to suck" sounds a lot like "people have the right to be carried," which is so blatantly false.

People act like DPS don't have a job to do. What is the use of a player who can't out-dps a tank? In the opposite scenario, if a tank cannot out-threat a DPS, that tank is going to get kicked or verbally abused 90% of the time. Why do DPS get to be babied?

I wonder what would happen to these players if people started playing down to their level. You see a tome-hero player pulling 200 dps and decide, hey I guess that's all I have to do too! Everyone just can't be arsed, no one gets to clear anything... sounds fun.

[Darkstride]

Regarding the "people have the right to suck because they pay for the game" sentiment, that is absolutely true. Sometimes. If you're playing alone, then by all means play any way that you like. No one can or should tell you how to play and you are right, you pay for that experience so it should be your experience.

HOWEVER....

Once you start interacting with other players, you are now engaged with other paying subscribers. Using the "I pay to play how I want" argument no longer holds weight, because you are now affecting how others experience the game play as well. If you play poorly and as a result are causing other paying players to not be able to play efficiently, then they absolutely have a right to hold you accountable for it.

Your subscription does not make you more important than other players....everyone you interact with also has a subscription. This is an MMO - a multiplayer game at its core. You cannot consistently be detrimental to other players' experiences and then expect them to just /shrug and say "oh yeah, they pay for this game they can play how they want".

Don't play the victim.

[T2teddy]

Of course, there are those of us that have certain ... problems, making optimal gameplay not something that can be commonly done. Whether it's due to hands not pressing the buttons your mind is telling it to, or a complete inability to focus on more than one or two things at a time. I, for instance, cannot keep track of cooldowns/buffs/DoTs/AoEs to move out of the way of, as well as doing perfect rotations without messing something up regardless of how much practice is put into it due to some limitations my brain can process at the same time. I've played Bard, and only Bard, since 2.1 and I'm only an average player that can play to the absolute best every once in a while.

But I know who I am, and I stay out of content that's too much for me. No EX Primals or Alexander for a while, until Echo comes into play.

Make that two of us! And I refuse to allow myself to be carried like a useless mannikin through content because it's not fair to the party.

snip the absolutely bang on correct summary and kudos to you for your bluntness! You are right.

Can we have a whole community like Breathless, please?

[Zohar_Lahar]

The game could outright tell you what the absolutely best rotation for DPS is and there would still be plenty of Bads. It has nothing to do with availability of knowledge... knowledge is abundant.

It comes down to attitude, plain and simple. There are simply some players that are either too lazy or too apathetic to be bothered. No amount of hand-holding will make them improve.

They really screwed up the rewards for Bismarck Extreme, since few competent players have any incentive to do it again.

[Totobi]

I wonder what would happen to these players if people started playing down to their level. You see a tome-hero player pulling 200 dps and decide, hey I guess that's all I have to do too! Everyone just can't be arsed, no one gets to clear anything... sounds fun.

Maybe we should try that, we might find some enrage timers on bosses we never knew existed!