Please let BRDs use Empyrean Arrow and Iron Jaws outside of Wanderer's Minuet

[ShaolinMike]

Wish this was the case. There's so many bards with so many different perspectives, I'm sort of getting tired of trying to put my perspective in to how WM does not mix well with how bard was designed in2.0

While I will agree that WM feels kinda contradictory to BRD's original design, I don't think it's at all job breaking. I'm enjoying my level 56 BRD (I main SMN), but I'm leveling MCH up as well just so I can give them a fair comparison. So far it's really just come down to whether I feel like singing songs with a bow or throwing a turret and shooting $#it in the face.

[Ormeriel]

Bard's are not fine. While the new rotation with empyreal arrow, iron jaws and sidewinder is pretty nice, the fact that you need to have minuet on to use them, make it so that you basically must have minuet on almost 100% of the time.

As a result it changes the bard class, to a class with casting times, which was never what the class was about. It is also pretty awkward for a class with so many ability off global cooldown in their rotation, to have cast time.

So yeah, Bards "might" be fine DPS wise with minuet. But the addition of casting times is not, this is poor design and a pretty bad way to "balance" minuet.

It is also not about relearning the class, or making it more "faceroll", which is a pretty insulting way to put thing by the way Mimiru.

I have perfectly mastered the rotation with Minuet, and my DPS is ok with it, but the addition of casting time makes everything feels awkward and at the same time it is mandatory, which is exactly what bad design is.

[RiceisNice]

While I will agree that WM feels kinda contradictory to BRD's original design, I don't think it's at all job breaking. I'm enjoying my level 56 BRD (I main SMN), but I'm leveling MCH up as well just so I can give them a fair comparison. So far it's really just come down to whether I feel like singing songs with a bow or throwing a turret and shooting $#it in the face.

As a bard main who leveld machinist first, I'd say otherwise. It's completely pacebreaking for me when I have those frequent disconnects between my skill activations. It's one of the reason why I have a preference for ranged physical dps; they were typically the "faster" versions of a caster. With all the classes sharing the same GCD, BRD was able to be faster paced tha BLM in 2.0 because of their oGCD resets and weaving; Cast times prevent half of that half of the time and cause some fragmented disconnects when you double up on oGCDs because of a reset.

[AkashiXI]

Wish this was the case. There's so many bards with so many different perspectives, I'm sort of getting tired of trying to put my perspective in to how WM does not mix well with how bard was designed in2.0

I feel the same way, it's the main reason I'm posting less and lurking more. Mobility wise I'm not having any issues in Savage, and I happily achieved 970 on our last A1 (I know it can be better, I'm constantly learning). At this point I'm still not enjoying the fluidity behind Bard's toolset, and I'd love to see changes with EA and possibly more SS procs to increase mobility. Otherwise, my personal changes are rather selfish: better support tools so that our dps difference is justified.

[Tharkis]

People played bards to be "the mobile class" not to be "the support class" Bards had a relative DPS penalty to other physical based dps as a result of their mobility and 'support' (despite support not being a 'role' you queue for)

One of the big issues is that pre 3.0 bards were at a certain point relative to other DPS, weaker but still able to get the job done, this was our penalty for being mobile... now post 3.0 we're more or less, dps wise, at the same point relative to the other DPS... but we must lose our mobility to do so, because without WM we're so far behind we cant fill the role of a DPS anymore. They've fundamentally changed bard to something that its' never been. The description of it as "bow mage" is pretty accurate, except mages have been designed around their ability interactions... whereas brd + WM is just a total mess right now of bad interactions with nothing flowing together at all.

[SlyRoyale]

I'm just going to say this outright because there is no delicate way to go about this: your suggestion is stupid, OP. Iron Jaws and Empyreal Arrow are WM-exclusive because of how good they are. One is a GCD weaponskill that snapshots both Wind- and Venomous Bites, and the other is a 220 potency oGCD on a 15s or shorter recast depending on your skill speed. Add the fact that WM boosts all damage by +30%, and you're looking at 130 initial potency from Iron Jaws plus the DoTs being snapshotted with the boost, and 286 potency from Empyreal Arrow. If you want them not to be restricted in that way, then MCH would have to get the same change with their GB-exclusive actions, too.

Jeez, why do these WM whining threads have to be such a headache to read? It's the same nonsense but with a different flavour almost every time, with the only saving grace being those telling the whiners that the ability is better than they're giving credit for.

[AkashiXI]

People played bards to be "the mobile class" not to be "the support class" Bards had a relative DPS penalty to other physical based dps as a result of their mobility and 'support' (despite support not being a 'role' you queue for)

Please speak only for yourself. I chose Bard because they were advertised as a role that supports the party, and that's what I want to do. I do agree that we're more dps than support though, hell, AST is more support than us. We definitely need a WD fix, and more potent (or better) songs.

[Argentt]

One of the big issues is that pre 3.0 bards were at a certain point relative to other DPS, weaker but still able to get the job done, this was our penalty for being mobile... now post 3.0 we're more or less, dps wise, at the same point relative to the other DPS... but we must lose our mobility to do so, because without WM we're so far behind we cant fill the role of a DPS anymore. They've fundamentally changed bard to something that its' never been. The description of it as "bow mage" is pretty accurate, except mages have been designed around their ability interactions... whereas brd + WM is just a total mess right now of bad interactions with nothing flowing together at all.

The whole idea of a mobile ranged class is pretty much dead. It sucks because it was one of the more enjoyable parts of the job and it shows in the plummeting number of BRD mains. We may see changes in 3.1 as to what is OGCD or maybe even some changes to bloodletter procs, but I wouldn't expect any significant change to WM. Tacking WM on to bards just to make it easier to balance them with MCH was a really lazy thing to do on the part of the devs, but creating that new class archetype definitely does make it easier for them to balance them long term.

[Warlyx]

Mobile brd isnt coming back , we have to deal with it ....what we can do is try to get QOL changes and WD boost , yay got my ESO BOW! , 67 WD.....while others are at 74....and at 210 all gain +2WD ....and BRD / MCH gain +1.....76 vs 68.....

[RinchanNau]

Bard is stronger than pre-3.0 relative to other jobs at least when it comes to FCoB vs Alex savage.

BRD keeps up quite well in both A1 and A3 savage. And even has a chance at top DPS when given the luxury of a DRG. This is different than FCoB where other jobs would always pull ahead.

My server keeps a DPS spreadsheet and while I'm sure it won't last I am currently 1st in A1 savage DPS at 1066. Pre-week 3 weapon upgrades. BRD is doing quite well since the WM buff.