The 4th Tank.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Mage Tank. Arcane Warrior!

[Khalithar]

Snip

I love the thematic design as well, it's why I suggested putting Samurai on the same armor type as mnk and nin. That way they could all share that style of armor, you know depending on what they throw on it. But one thing I'd love to see which has stood out to me, is thus far SE has been very hesitant about giving any sort of Garlean style weapons or armor which is honestly what I want more than anything. I love their aesthetic, some garlean themed jobs would be awesome. How the story could support I have no idea, but I still want it!

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Samurai will probably fit when the land of the Au'Ra opens.

Also...

I think I want something unique. Warrior Priest type class, plate armor melee healer with a two handed mace.

[Cooperal]

Partial snip.
The main problem with the FF series is that they never had non-heavy armor sturdy classes outside of the monk.

You have to keep in mind that "sturdy" and "tank" do not have to be kept together by law. Evasion, decoys, crowd control (stuns, paralysis, binds, knockbacks) also all serve the tanks ultimate purpose. It's not to take hits but to make the enemy use their time as uselessly as possible.

The FFXI version of NIN was one such tank which really couldn't take hits head-on very well, but relied on its evasion as well as its shadow spam. I want Dancer to come back in that sort of way, only with something a bit more inventive than shadow-spam and a bit more movement-based. Elaborated back on page 6. Dual fans as a weapon would be nice.

[Phoenicia]

Snip.

Yeah, but you have to think in terms of FFXIV mechanics too. FFXIV does not have evasion as a stat, it can only be temporarily boosted and doesn't work when it matters.

FFXIV tanking meta is: Set period of low damage (fluff) into tank buster (1 hit or multiple). If we have an evasion tank that can dodge busters, we will only use that tank.

Blinds, Paralysis and binds don't work on bosses. And knockbacks only serve to piss off your tank and DPS.

FFXI is a fun example on its own though. In that game, BRD, RDM, BLU, DRK, SAM, and NIN all cheesed their way through tanking. For example, NIN wasn't even designed to tank. RDM tanked in a fun way with all its defensive spells and enfeebles that made some mobs just stand there doing nothing.

So unless SE changes the way the stats work mechanically. Or change the meta of how damage is dealt and received, we are limited on what SE can do with the jobs.

[karateorangutang]

I've been campaigning for SAM tank for awhile now lol.

I played SAM pretty heavily in XI and I enjoy the aesthetic alot.

They could do Rune Knight for a hybrid tank. Viking for a more traditional VIT tank... although WAR basically fills that aesthetic.

Red Mage or a variation on Blue Mage would be an interesting mage tank idea. Theres quite a few defensive monster abilities that could be used.

I'd agree that making an evasion tank would be really hard to do in the ruleset that they have set down on this game.

If they wanted to do a unique look though they could do a variant on jobs with a more middle eastern feel. I was hoping PLD would turn out that way but they went full on European knight with it.

[Phoenicia]

If they wanted to do a unique look though they could do a variant on jobs with a more middle eastern feel. I was hoping PLD would turn out that way but they went full on European knight with it.

Yeah, PLD in FFTA was an Arabian Knight which I found cool. BLU and DNC in FFXI was also middle eastern (more persian) which made them look pretty fancy as well.

I agree that a more diverse cultural references in the jobs would totally be awesome.

[Cooperal]

Yeah, but you have to think in terms of FFXIV mechanics too. FFXIV does not have evasion as a stat, it can only be temporarily boosted and doesn't work when it matters.

FFXIV tanking meta is: Set period of low damage (fluff) into tank buster (1 hit or multiple). If we have an evasion tank that can dodge busters, we will only use that tank.

Blinds, Paralysis and binds don't work on bosses. And knockbacks only serve to piss off your tank and DPS.

FFXI is a fun example on its own though. In that game, BRD, RDM, BLU, DRK, SAM, and NIN all cheesed their way through tanking. For example, NIN wasn't even designed to tank. RDM tanked in a fun way with all its defensive spells and enfeebles that made some mobs just stand there doing nothing.

So unless SE changes the way the stats work mechanically. Or change the meta of how damage is dealt and received, we are limited on what SE can do with the jobs.

I'm sure there must be a way. I neglected to mention much about self-buffs in my last post. Actions like the PLDs Shelltron and the DRKs Living Dead are each examples of abilities that counter-balance the fact that bosses can also come with their own resistances. They force something to happen (or not happen) regardless of what the opponent tries. Much like the FFXI ninja shadow.

Not to mention that annoying people hasn't stopped knockbacks from being included on the likes of CNJ and MCH. It's the sort of ability that people avoid using but would certainly have its purpose when saving a life takes priority over someones perfect DPS. A knockback wasn't something that I thought would suit a DNC (I purposely left it out when I went into detail pages back) but when I think about it, a tank is the one that would get the most out of it, so it seemed worth putting on the end when listing CC. If anything, a DNC-like way about a knockback would be best in resverse. Like a self-knockback combined with an enemy-bind to offer a breather.

In any case, you should go back to page 6, look at what I said, and think about ways you could hammer those points to make them work because I promise it wouldn't be far-fetched. Just try it rather than giving the "I don't need to I know better". The meta is bland and kind of needs saving. (Discalimer: No harsh tone intended, I just don't like spending an hour ironing out my posts)

[Yhximott]

To all who are willing to pee their pants about how many hands a samurai would use to hold its sword:

You could just make it have zero hands on the weapon unless it was using an ability. All quick draw and re-sheath.

Or you could make warrior hold it's axe in its teeth.

Or you could make paladin wear it's shield like a hat.

The point is that that's a dumb reason to determine what a tank is.

Based on everything I've read, SE's only solution to the problems everyone seems to have would be to make everything a hybrid and give us the freedom we had in XI. More cross class abilities; multiple sets of viable and variable weapons ala wand+shield WHM from 1.0 and some of 2.0.

[Cooperal]

Snip

Agreed on most fronts. It's not what it looks like but what it does that concerns us first and foremost. It could levitate its equipment by magic for all I care, but it's whether the job tests my expectations that I care about. We could be waiting another two years before we get the next tank class and we could still get dished another job that does exactly what a WAR/PLD/DRK do all the way from 1(30)-60. Recycling all the same combination of levelling equipment (bar the main-hand) and attribute distributions once again. No thanks.

I'm not up for making every class a hybrid because that would screw the duty finder to no end. But I suppose the soul crystal system does set us up in a way that could eventually allow classes to branch out to more than one job like Arcanist does. Two jobs using the same kind of main-hand, but without the role-identity crisis.

Plenty can be rigged to make it happen, especially in regards to changing up levelling equipment. For example, dexterity uniquely upgrades melee damage ONLY for ROG/NIN, why not seek a way to make other exclusive changes for the likes of defensive capabilities.