Loot system suggestions, thoughts, and your opinion!

[karateorangutang]

like Suggestion 1 right?

Kinda like this

NEED: Matches current class and equip level, Current Piece must be lower ilvl by 10 ilvl's or more. If noone is 10 ilvl's or more below items level then all current classes can lot.
GREED: Free for all

That way if the pieces is say i120 and two whm's have a i110 piece and a i120 piece they can both need on the piece. In the case of a i100 and a i120 user, then the i100 person would get dibs on the piece as that person needs it more to improve their gearset.

[sirDarts]

And even if we ignore this. What reason would I have to queue for anything with DF? I sure as hell won't take a risk of getting a bad party, just to get a drop I still have to be lucky to get.

Ummmm, the main reason you queue for DF is glamour? O... K... I'd say people like you are few and far between. Most people queue for DF using roulettes to get the roulette rewards - EXP, Law and Eso.

more like 5% or more is side upgrade with secondary stats. White items have almost always been worse then green items within 5 ilvl. ilvl is a tool to gauge where you are (not the end all be all). If the gear is an upgrade for me I should and will need even if it is the same ilvl or god forbid lower. Your a SCH people are already talking about keeping the hive wep. over the new ilvl 200 eso weapon because of the loss in crit. Need abuse is not in any way rampant right now, so why is this a problem right now? (it would be one thing if you did not spew stupid at me, might agree with some points, but it is your duty to greed if it does not improve your ilvl lol... no)

I find it a problem when something that is used to gate content doesn't really represent how strong it actually makes you.
For example you need lvl 145 for the lvl 60 dungeons, yet most people arrive there with green or HQ items that are 135-148 thus often ending up with ~i142-i143. A lot of them then go and blindly buy the i150 stuff because it opens up the lvl 60 dungeons, but at the same time makes them weaker... That's just plain terrible.

And yes, I agree there are a few exceptions to these "rules", but as said, they are not that bad.
And actually I see "need abuse" quite often, for example I have seen DRG weapons drop that I would have wanted for my DRG when he gets there, but there was another DRG in the party, who needed on it, despite having a way better weapon already... People often just "autoclick" need when they see it, they don't compare items, nothing, they just click and run.
Same thing when a glam weapon drops, for example one of the moogle weapons from King Mog while I am doing trial duty. Nobody is using it as an upgrade, it's always for glamour, so why should some have a higher chance on getting it just because they are currently on the given job even though others could use it as well?

[amihavingfunyet]

I can't think of a game that doesn't allow you to roll need on gear made for your class (regardless of level). You are performing the task you queued for, and get rewarded with gear for the class you queued with (or not because lolrng). If you wanted upgrades/glamours for one of your off-classes, why not go as that class? Why role for any item you MIGHT need in the future?

And are you seriously implying people don't queue for dungeons and trials for glamours? Because I see people queueing quite often for Garuda, Ifrit and Titan weapons.
Thankfully you can already do those undersized with a few friends and are able to fully bypass DF players.

And I wouldn't call anything of that "need abuse". (Edit: Did you try asking if you they can pass or greed?)

[karateorangutang]

I can't think of a game that doesn't allow you to roll need on gear made for your class (regardless of level). You are performing the task you queued for, and get rewarded with gear for the class you queued with (or not because lolrng). If you wanted upgrades/glamours for one of your off-classes, why not go as that class? Why role for any item you MIGHT need in the future?

And are you seriously implying people don't queue for dungeons and trials for glamours? Because I see people queueing quite often for Garuda, Ifrit and Titan weapons.
Thankfully you can already do those undersized with a few friends and are able to fully bypass DF players.

And I wouldn't call anything of that "need abuse". (Edit: Did you try asking if you they can pass or greed?)

I guess i don't have a problem with it in 4 player dungeons.

It becomes an issue in bigger instances where you have one person who actually needs the gear and the other doesnt and will still need. I frankly could give a flying crap about my glamour. I'll look like a junkyard delinquent if its effective, but I hate to see somebody lose out on a piece that they could actually use because somebody is greedy.

I still agree though that NEED should be limited to the current class.

[amihavingfunyet]

It becomes an issue in bigger instances where you have one person who actually needs the gear and the other doesnt and will still need.

Usually if you ask nicely if you can have an item if it drops, people don't mind passing (if they don't need it themself for upgrades) as long as you don't act rude or try to wipe the raid on purpose. That's at least my experience and I don't mind passing in that case myself. I'm not going to personally check your gear, ask if you need certain items or not. And for 24 man raids, it's not even that much of a problem, just run it again.
I can see how it is a bigger problem in current 8 man raids, if you need to sub in a healer or tank. You only have one chance of gear per week, and you don't want to gear some stranger that will never run any content with you again. But that's a non-issue with Lootmaster now too.

[sirDarts]

I can't think of a game that doesn't allow you to roll need on gear made for your class (regardless of level). You are performing the task you queued for, and get rewarded with gear for the class you queued with (or not because lolrng). If you wanted upgrades/glamours for one of your off-classes, why not go as that class? Why role for any item you MIGHT need in the future?
And are you seriously implying people don't queue for dungeons and trials for glamours? Because I see people queueing quite often for Garuda, Ifrit and Titan weapons.
Thankfully you can already do those undersized with a few friends and are able to fully bypass DF players.

And I wouldn't call anything of that "need abuse". (Edit: Did you try asking if you they can pass or greed?)

If I knew that the given weapon will drop, I would have queued as the given role. Sadly, there is no way to know. I don't have the weapon for either of my jobs, I would want it on both, if it drops. I still don't get why my glamour is worth less than someone else's glamour just because they are on the job RIGHT NOW.
And there is no "might" in my rolls, I know I will need it.

I'm not saying players NEVER queue for glamour, I'm saying that those are quite rare. And even then, they should have the same chance to get this glamour piece as everyone else, that might even lure more tanks/healers into content since they would have to chance to get it for their DPS jobs faster.

There really is no time to ask to "pass or greed", most people have rolled before one can even open the chat, let alone type something.

Btw, what would you call "need abuse" if not needing on stuff you do not need?

[karateorangutang]

Usually if you ask nicely if you can have an item if it drops, people don't mind passing (if they don't need it themself for upgrades) as long as you don't act rude or try to wipe the raid on purpose. That's at least my experience and I don't mind passing in that case myself. I'm not going to personally check your gear, ask if you need certain items or not. And for 24 man raids, it's not even that much of a problem, just run it again.
I can see how it is a bigger problem in current 8 man raids, if you need to sub in a healer or tank. You only have one chance of gear per week, and you don't want to gear some stranger that will never run any content with you again. But that's a non-issue with Lootmaster now too.

Relying on the kindness of a DF is like waving your keys to your car and shouting that your not armed in downtown Detroit. Sure... 90% of the the time you'll be fine, but is it really a big deal to put some caveat on the system that forces a fairness in things like 8-24 man raids. This system that I described would still allow passing, and in addition would level the playing field for entry level players.

[amihavingfunyet]

There really is no time to ask to "pass or greed", most people have rolled before one can even open the chat, let alone type something.

With 3.0 changes you can now pass an item you already rolled on. Just ask them before you cast your lot. Or alternatively, ask before you kill the boss? It's not a hard concept to grasp.

Btw, what would you call "need abuse" if not needing on stuff you do not need?

I don't see how it is abuse if that's the system's intended use and you don't go against any rules you agreed to when joining the party (greed only, locked loot).
An example of what I would call "need abuse": You join a farm party that agrees to greed only, but you roll need anyway.

[sirDarts]

With 3.0 changes you can now pass an item you already rolled on. Just ask them before you cast your lot. Or alternatively, ask before you kill the boss? It's not a hard concept to grasp.

I don't see how it is abuse if that's the system's intended use and you don't go against any rules you agreed to when joining the party (greed only, locked loot).
An example of what I would call "need abuse": You join a farm party that agrees to greed only, but you roll need anyway.

Most won't care after they already rolled, or at least they won't want to change to "pass". Can you change to "greed"?

The party rules are nice and all, but only work in PF, not in DF. So basically you are saying that there is no way to "need abuse" in DF.

[amihavingfunyet]

You can only change to pass. And I can't confirm that "most don't care". But I guess that's my DF experience versus yours.

Yes, yes I would say there is no way you can "need abuse" in DF. You knew the rules very well before you queued up. You may want to call it being a jerk, but not abuse.