The positive Astrologian thread!

[Ghishlain]

Now, if you consider the Arrow card, which does 10% attack speed for 15s ... scales down when the target already has much speed (NIN and MNK).

Just wanted to do a small correction to this. Haste is one of those effects that actually scale higher the more you stack of it. Consider the following:

Base attack speed is 100s (for the sake of easy math)

Huton from Ninja increases attack speed by 15%. In this case, it shaves 15s off your base attack speed.

100 / 85 = 1.176 or a 17.6% increase in how fast a Ninja attacks.

Now, let's consider adding Arrow to that. I believe similar effects are additive, therefore total attack speed reduction is 25% (25s in this case).

Increased from base speed = 100 / 75 = 1.333 = 33.3% increase in attack speed.
Increased from Ninja's normal w/ Huton = 85/75 = 1.133 = 13.3% increase in attack speed.

So, barring TP constraints due to just attacking way too fast (which can be fixed with a Spire later), it's better to put Arrow on jobs that have native attack speed boosts to give them even more power with it.

[TatoRazzino]

Snip

Att. Speed is applied to a value that's already modified by Spell/Skill speed. I noticed this when I compared my AST timers. Naked, I had 2s cast time in Noct and 1.9s cast time in Diurnal, meaning that the 5% were calculated considering the 2s and reduced it by 0.1; when I got more spell speed that value changed, and in Diurnal I get a reduction of less than 0.1 in relation to Noct. This changes the HPS output: with spell speed, the HPS rate of Noct became slightly better. Obviously, my HPS in Diurnal is better with spell speed than without it, but my HPS in nocturnal is outperforming it due to the potency increase - and it wasn't before. What I meant when I said that the buff scaled down is that you can't calculate the reduction if you don't know the cast time of your target; that's why I used the base 2.5 values and I wanted to add the information that you can't take the 0.08 reduction as a fixed value, because it changes.

[Ghishlain]

Att. Speed is applied to a value that's already modified by Spell/Skill speed. I noticed this when I compared my AST timers. Naked, I had 2s cast time in Noct and 1.9s cast time in Diurnal, meaning that the 5% were calculated considering the 2s and reduced it by 0.1; when I got more spell speed that value changed, and in Diurnal I get a reduction of less than 0.1 in relation to Noct. This changes the HPS output: with spell speed, the HPS rate of Noct became slightly better. Obviously, my HPS in Diurnal is better with spell speed than without it, but my HPS in nocturnal is outperforming it due to the potency increase - and it wasn't before. What I meant when I said that the buff scaled down is that you can't calculate the reduction if you don't know the cast time of your target; that's why I used the base 2.5 values and I wanted to add the information that you can't take the 0.08 reduction as a fixed value, because it changes.

In my post, I'm not referring to SpS and Haste stacking, I'm talking about Haste stacking with other forms of Haste.

Huton, Greased Lightning, and Arrow stack additively and the faster you can make your MNK and NIN go, the better effect they get. A 15% Attack Speed buff allows them to attack 17.6% faster. Give them arrow for 25% attack speed and they're attacking 33.3% faster. If you're looking at raw attacks, giving Arrow to a job that has a native Attack Speed buffs makes them love you even more (assuming you give them a Spire later for their TP issues).

I'm looking at this buff as a vacuum independent from the target's SkS and SpS because once you're engaged in combat you'll no means of changing that value. Even at a 2.42 GCD, having 15% haste will allow you to attack 17.6% faster compared to 2.42 GCD and 25% haste will allow you to attack 33.3% faster compared 2.42 GCD.

But you are correct in the sense that haste itself is devalued slightly as a stat when put beside SpS and SkS because the two stats multiplicative stack.

Can you people read? I said EXTENDED, not EXPANDED. I never said that getting the buff to the whole party as AST is better than using Selene. People bashing AST don't even know what their buffs do, it's pathetic. And you complain about me calling you dumb and dishonest. On top of that: Selene does not affect the DPS output of every single job in the same way. 0.08 less cast time on a SMN GCD does almost nothing for their damage; that on a MNK or BLM has more effect, so focusing a card can do more than using a weak buff on the party. in a fight like Faust, which is very short, the haste buff that Selene provides does nothing to my party, because there's no time for them to get the extra cast, which is basically the only reason to have a haste buff to begin with.

The thing you have to consider behind Spoekes post is the fact that there is a very heavy RNG element associated with AST's ability and that devalues the buff an AST can provide to a degree.

SCH provides a reliable 1.5% attack speed buff without restriction. While I don't doubt an Enhanced Balance + Time Dilation on a DRG about to start their burst rotation or an Enhance Arrow + Time Dilation on a WAR about to start their burst rotation will outpace the 3% party haste buff for 30s from Selene, you can't reliably count on that to be on your beck and call.

Once you start account for probability and averages into your equation, AST buffs begin to look less and less friendly.