WAR love is out of hand. Twelve forbid the other Tanks stand out in any way.

[Disc]

You can build a static without a BRD/MCH too, there are reasons people don't. If you build a static without a WAR for utility, that is your fault.

[Kaith]

No, that is the fault of the jobs and endgame content being unbalanced which is exactly the problem.

[Disc]

No, that is the fault of the jobs and endgame content being unbalanced which is exactly the problem.

WAR is the best OT, PLD/DRK are the best MTs with the preference depending on fight. You're trying to stick a square peg in a round hole. That does not make them unblanced.

[Kaith]

It makes them unbalanced because the WAR can also slot into the MT slot without any issues too. When WAR/WAR is arguably the best configuration to take into engame content then either WAR is signicantly better than the other two or the content is poorly designed.

[Phoenicia]

Multiple snips.

WAR is ahead of DRK in DPS by 50%? You must be playing with really bad DRKs if they can't pull more than 600. There are MANY parses of DRKs pulling 900+. With slashing debuff, 900 x 1.11 = 1000. Same as WAR. PLD is hardly behind in OT DPS.

Where are you pulling your numbers from? I provided many mathematical proves that you can do the same raid DPS without a WAR in group. Parses and videos were also provided.

You speak as if WAR is the only class in the game with the slashing debuff. What about NIN? Btw, NIN is the second highest DPS in the entire game and they provide the best raid DPS buffs, there is no reason not to include one. PLD/DRK + NIN function EXACTLY AS WELL as any WAR comb.

WAR is the best OT, PLD/DRK are the best MTs with the preference depending on fight. You're trying to stick a square peg in a round hole.

Please stop making these ignorant comments. WAR mitigation is 7% ahead of PLD (at the cost of 4% behind in effective healing). DRK provides the same DPS as WAR and PLD provides far more utility than WAR. Nothing an OT WAR does he can't do as MT. Based on the fight, the three tanks perform equally well in either role (OT or MT). Again look around the forums and you'll find the numbers since "math doesn't lie".

[Disc]

WAR MT is not as effective as PLD without a PLD for support, or DRK vs magical.(assuming MNK) The argument could be made for WAR MT over DRK in A2S, but the AoE damage DRK put out make WAR+WAR comp less enticing. Especially with the slower LB bar in a fight where you barely build LB as is.

Please stop making these ignorant comments. WAR mitigation is 7% ahead of PLD (at the cost of 4% behind in effective healing). DRK provides the same DPS as WAR and PLD provides far more utility than WAR. Nothing an OT WAR does he can't do as MT. Based on the fight, the three tanks perform equally well in either role (OT or MT). Again look around the forums and you'll find the numbers since "math doesn't lie".

WAR will only come out ahead of PLD in terms of mitigation if you're counting the average based on spamming mitigation abilities & have a PLD in the party using Rage of Halone to debuff the mob at the cost of damage. You're much better using PLD as MT in that situation & allowing the WAR to more realistically spam Fell Cleave.

DRK can come close in terms of DPS or even do more in certain instances, sure. They're weaker than WAR in terms of physical mitigation too. But the only time this is an issue in practice is A2S. The tanks do not perform equally well, they each have their niche.

[Kaith]

To be honest, I always forget NIN gets the slashing debuff as our static has never had one.

I never said WAR was 50% ahead of DRK. I said WAR/DRK was 35-40% ahead of PLD/DRK and WAR/WAR was 40-50% ahead of PLD/DRK. That was assuming no NIN in either scenario though.

Most of the parses I've seen have WAR at around 1050-1100 DPS and DRK at 900-1000 DPS (some with slashing debuff, some without). With i200 weapon (which obviously WAR and DRK don't have yet) and penta-melded accessories I can do ~830 DPS on PLD on a dummy with no slashing debuff.

I know that MT'ing Faust with stance dancing I did 714 DPS today (No NIN so I have to open in Shield). If I have to full time Shield Oath then I'm down to ~575 DPS without slashing debuff (slightly more on a dummy)

[Tila]

Well you instantly get 10% from the DRK getting the slashing debuff in the WAR/DRK scenario and not in the PLD/DRK scenario.

So then you're looking at WAR with slashing debuff versus PLD without slashing debuff which is 25-30%. So you're at 35-40% now.

The 40-50% range would be comparing against the WAR/WAR configuration.

Those are some massively inflated numbers. No wonder you think WAR is too much.

No, that is the fault of the jobs and endgame content being unbalanced which is exactly the problem.

Try to go over your numbers again, and this time don't suddenly skip ahead with no explanation.

[Iagainsti]

So sad, in 2.0 I couldn't survive Hoodswipe in darklight. Now that our class can burst for huge damage and tank no prob, ppl are #butthurt. I wasn't on the the forums complaining I was stuck in ot prior to 3.0, so stop complaining about the glory that is the Warrior nowadays. The crybabies will get their buffs next patch.

[Kaith]

I don't see how they are inflated.

If I do 830 DPS on PLD and the WAR does 1050-1100 DPS then that lines up with my numbers. The DRK getting the slashing debuff in one scenario but not in the other makes up for the rest.