WAR love is out of hand. Twelve forbid the other Tanks stand out in any way.

[Carstien]

OP you are quite certifiable.

For a start, yes, you DO always get 600 potency back on your clemency if you heal another person. You are talking as though overheal somehow reduces the heal you do and the amount you get back, it doesn't. Clemency on another player is a 1800 potency heal. It can also be used twice in a row.

WAR was always the self heal tank anyway, and that is what they got. A self heal. Paladin got a heal more in line with its conjurer roots while still as powerful, more so when used unselfishly.

And the dps stance...why shouldn't WAR have that? Should we be forced again to lose stacks and access to the skills they provide simply because we want to off tank effectively? Paladin already have their own damage stance, and for the record did more damage as off tanks before Heavensward that a Warrior did.

Paladin also got some extremely characterful abilities in divine Veil and Sheltron but lets pretend they don't exist and focus on WAR again right?

[Dererk]

tell this to all the Bards who are getting out DPSD by wars.

[NFaelivrin]

I don't understand why the WAR community is so defensive. Must be a case of wanting to have their cake and eat it too. Warrior is currently lacking in any genuine holes in their toolkit, while both PLD and DRK have huge disadvantages meant to balance their advantages. "PLD is better MT in physical fights and DRK is better in magical" is not a genuine balance as it places tank classes entirely at the mercy of damage types in a way WAR isn't, nevermind that esoterics gear means a static's MT can't afford to equally gear both PLD and DRK in a reasonable timeframe, aside from how silly it is requiring of MTs to swap classes depending on the fight.

[Akei]

Hurm, I like the WAR for pure DPS tank, sure I can pull 750-800 DPS in a dungeon on a WAR (over-all #'s here, I spike higher here and there) and the stance swapping feels very fluid which I love. However I still tend to find that I spend most of my time on PLD. Yer my DPS is lower on trash packs where I focus on holding aggro and mitigation (PLD is not easy to stance dance on when pulling mass packs) but on all current bosses I'm 100% in Sword Oath and still pulling 700+ish DPS on a PLD, and I'm not an overly good PLD (I usually play drunk as hell and miss hit alot of buttons lol)

Is my DPS a little lower than a WAR? Yes sure .. but I can use *All* my defensive CD's in Sword Oath and mitigate away while DPSin. I still love the PLD (although I'm leveling DRK now and liking that) over WAR though. Personal opinion here. Would I love Clem to be oGCD and trigger GCD? Yup .. but I can deal with the current situation.

I dont think PLD is weak at all .. all the tanks have thier place and bottom line it's gonna be down to individual player skill. A good PLD is gonna be more effective than a poor WAR, etc etc.

[Phoenicia]

I don't understand why the WAR community is so defensive.
-- Other things about tank job swapping.

They're defensive because they're, you know, tanks!!

Bad jokes aside, "PLD better MT in physical fights and DRK is better in magical" VERY genuinely puts WAR under t he mercy of the damage type as well. In a Physical fight the PLD will MT, not WAR. And in a magical fight, DRK will MT not WAR. WAR is just as under the mercy of the damage type as either of the other tanks. Sticking it in the OT spot just makes people overlook that. Either of the other tanks would be as unaffected by the damage type as the WAR is if they also OT.

Btw, WAR is as disadvantaged as a PLD is in magical fights. Just like how PLD loses shield and Bulwark, WAR has no Raw Intuition or Wrath parry (granted parry is poop, but Bulwark isn't reliable either and Sheltron is hard to time). WAR just retains the higher DPS output. Neither of these two "suck" in a magical environment either. They can still pump EHP to 207% (PLD) and 214% (WAR) if they choose to throw all their CDs at busters (Like they should in As1). DRK on the other hand is utter shite in physical fights (maximum EHP of 178%) and ridiculously good in magical ones (up to 255%).

If your static is running PLD WAR, have the WAR MT magical fights and PLD go OT. If your static is running DRK WAR, have the WAR MT physical and DRK MT magical. Problem solved. PLD DRK setups work just as fine if you include a NIN (considering NIN is the second highest DPS after DRG, I don't see why you wouldn't). None of the tanks has to gear more than 1 job. This "imbalance" that people cry about is way over exaggerated.

EDIT: I forgot to point out that out of the three tanks, the tank with the real discrepancy in fight damage type is DRK, not PLD and WAR. The gap between Physical and Magical mitigation of DRK is ~75%. WAR and PLD lose a small layer of additional 20~30% based on parry~block with a tower shield. WAR and PLD still have their effective tools to handle magic damage between their CDs and self-heals. DRK is down to 2 CDs (one of them is too long) and no other, reliable or otherwise, effective ways to handle physical damage. PLDs shouldn't cry about how disadvantaged they are in magical fights because they aren't. DRKs are just "better" in those fights and they pay a steep price of being severely disadvantaged in physical fights. Which is what I was trying to explain.

[Thunda_Cat_SMASH]

It's not gonna hurt the PLD to share the MT spot occasionally, considering how they all hogged it all the way through 2.x, barring one occasion in t5.

[Sessurea]

warrior in my static was maintaining 1.1-1.2k dps throughout the majority of SA2.

[Carstien]

warrior in my static was maintaining 1.1-1.2k dps throughout the majority of SA2.

SA2 is a stupid place to be quoting dps from. Might as well quote a Brayflox hm run.

[Twilite]

The skill ceiling for WAR is very high.. you don't get pro at it over night.

and honestly, in a raid/trial setting, I would prefer a PLD to MT.

[Adventica6]

war was garbage for a very long time in 2.0, I could care less if they are actually worth playing now.

You have more defensive cds to mitigate dmg and you pay for that with crap dps,

git _ _ _.