Dragoon Punished at lvl 58 - What needs to be done with Wheeling Thrust

[Leonus]

That might be because this thread is not about the "entire package"

It's about Wheeling Thrust and how its introduction only serves to potentially drag down that "package" rather than build upon it in any meaningful way.

This thread isn't about how DRGs are at the top of the DPS ladder and therefore somehow suddenly loses its rights to complain about obvious design flaws, but there was no shortage of people in this thread pointing that out like it somehow pertained to the subject at hand.

If you wanna go that route, then this thread has no real meaning seeing as there is nothing inherently wrong with the move. Just that it's not "different". Nothing needs to be done about Wheeling thrust.

Whatsoever. It's just a place for people to complain, like this entire forum is now.

[Greyfrost]

So here's my story, I unlocked Blood of the Dragon, I also unlocked fang and claw next, then I proceeded right to 60 ignoring wheeling thrust at 58.
But then I need to unlock it whether I want it or not for Geirskogul.

Yes, even with only fang and claw learned, the proc rate for 4th tier with Blood of the Dragon active is 100%.

My opinions regarding Fang and Claw and Wheeling Thrust are...

1. Both are practically the same skill, Both are GCDs skills, Potency (positional/mispositioned), range, no special debuff.

2. It's totally RNG, and it's annoying, having to move right after Chaos/Full hits to the right position. Not to mention you need to pay extra attention to which skills did you proc.


Honestly, everything's all good and all but it'd be a serious quality of life enchancement with just 1 of the two, rather than either one proccing at 50/50.

I tried having only one, Fang and Claw until I was 60, and trust me, life was so easy.

[Fynlar]

If you wanna go that route, then this thread has no real meaning seeing as there is nothing inherently wrong with the move. Just that it's not "different". Nothing needs to be done about Wheeling thrust.

I expect new abilities to add something to the job (and not just detract from it for zero reason)

Apparently you settle for less, but I don't.

[Leonus]

I expect new abilities to add something to the job (and not just detract from it for zero reason)

Apparently you settle for less, but I don't.

Detract from the job.. lol.

You can say what you want, I'd say I'm looking at it from a broader viewpoint, while most that cry about how "but it's the same thing and adds complexity for no gain" are more narrow-minded in their view.

Because, as a whole, everything tied to BotD adds something, and puts inherit risks for a gain.

[Fynlar]

Detract from the job.. lol.

I'm sorry, do you have some other name for something that only stands to potentially decrease your overall DPS and will never, ever improve it?

[Leonus]

I'm sorry, do you have some other name for something that only stands to potentially decrease your overall DPS and will never, ever improve it?

No, but it adds a added "challenge" to maintain you added damage boost via blood of the f $!#€:g dragon and isn't FREE like most people complaining seem to want it to be.

I could see if you did not get the extra 15 seconds for not hitting the positional, but that's not the case.

So basically people want all the reward, with NO risks.
Which is ridiculous. Plus in comparison to other dps jobs, unbalanced.

[Shurrikhan]

Detract from the job.. lol.

Fang & Claw's addition added something. Wheeling Thrust then nerfed it. That's detraction in every way except fluff complexity. In the broad view, a help perhaps, but the way they were implemented definitely makes the 58 ability a detraction. The verb is well deserved. It went from full reward with no risk, to the same reward with newly added risk. No other job nerfs their 54/56 additions in that manner. It's just weird. Adding a challenge is not the 'addition' most people expect from their new ability, especially when no new reward is attached.

[Fynlar]

added challenge

Come on, as a MMO player you should know the typical mentality. "added challenge" is only worthwhile if there is a payoff. There is none here.

The only potentially conceivable "benefit" of getting Wheeling Thrust is that it allows you to continue to the next quest to get Geirskogul. That doesn't change the fact that Wheeling Thrust itself is still repetitive, unnecessary ability bloat that only makes BotD harder to use without improving your performance at all. It makes actually doing your 58 quest feel like a slap in the face, something that no other ability-unlock quest has done to date in this game that I am aware of. Even if a quested ability was not useful, you always had the option to just not use it. BotD does not offer us that same luxury.

[Leonus]

Fang & Claw's addition added something. Wheeling Thrust then nerfed it. That's detraction in every way except fluff complexity. In the broad view, a help perhaps, but the way they were implemented definitely makes the 58 ability a detraction. The verb is well deserved. It went from full reward with no risk, to the same reward with newly added risk. No other job nerfs their 54/56 additions in that manner. It's just weird. Adding a challenge is not the 'addition' most people expect from their new ability, especially when no new reward is attached.

What you have at 58 is an incomplete SET of BotD abilities, which in that case detracts the entire BotD experience, yet some people only want to nitpick at a piece of it.

@ Fynlar

It may be the "typical mentality", but that doesn't make it right. TheRe should always be some risk, even if that risk is only a part of a bigger whole.

[Fynlar]

So basically people want all the reward, with NO risks.

No. Again, you've not been paying attention.

Risks are okay, we just want an actual reward to go along with the risk.

What you have at 58 is an incomplete SET of BotD abilities, which in that case detracts the entire BotD experience, yet some people only want to nitpick at a piece of it.

Again, obtaining Geirskogul does nothing to change the fact that Wheeling Thrust is ability bloat.

The fact that you have to obtain it to get Geirskogul does not change the fact that WT is redundant and pointless and only serves as a potential detriment to BotD. Even at 60 with Geirskogul, this does not change.

It may be the "typical mentality", but that doesn't make it right. TheRe should always be some risk, even if that risk is only a part of a bigger whole.

I think it's perfectly right. Risk vs. reward. If being a gamer somehow didn't make you aware of the concept already, there's business classes out there that teach this stuff.

There is a huge, huge difference between justified risk and needless risk. WT unfortunately does not fall in the former.