I miss the sense of adventure and danger in MMOs.

[justinjarjar]

Good lord no, there's dozens of things I could go play PvP in that aren't FFXIV and plenty that aren't MMO's.

Which is you, and I like PvP which is lacking in this game (even in a casual sense zergs are in no way fun to me or should ever be). Does not mean that they can not improve on it (which many people want just QoL changes like no GC restriction which could be implemented as a small patch and would not change anything major).

This is very telling on todays gamers then, player's expect a dumbed down content to the lowest denominator and if dev dare add any kind of depth it's a instant F2P game, how sad how far the genre has fallen, so Yoshi does have a point on it dying off slowly but surely for mmo's in general. /shrug

Time sink/waste and dumbed down are completely two different things. Just to point out to you, hard was arcade games which where made to take your money faster (harder game more deaths, more deaths more coins for resets). There is a reason they did not last with home gaming. Time waste is a 2 year grind to max level where you hit the same mobs for a months to level to get to the next zone and hit a slightly different mob for a month.

[Velhart]

Exploration in FFXI? How many of you went to Ifrit's Cauldron for just sightseeing? I won't take sides, but if you are holding some higher standard to FFXI's exploration then you do not have much to work off of. FFXI had it's own share of issues that gated people and influenced them to not do it. Sense of danger is fine, but FFXI was so miserable to get through certain places that you never left Jeuno/Aht Urghan Whitegate unless you had a reason to. Not to mention traversing was such a pain that people were willing to spend gil on WHM's to teleport them to areas.

Even in FFXIV 1.xx, people rather stay in town than take time to run to a certain area because they ran out of anima. People take ground/flying mounts for granted. I guarantee you people in FFXI in it's prime would of killed to get the type of accessibility that FFXIV has today. I sure as hell wish I had better accessibility when I played FFXI from 2003-2010. Its another case of rose-tinted glasses. Its fun to explore a first time, but after a while it only becomes tedious.

[Stanelis]

Exploration in FFXI? How many of you went to Ifrit's Cauldron for just sightseeing?

I actually did X)

But exploration was tedious in FFXI due to the XP penalty in case of death and the fact that you could easily be gibbed while exploring. Aside of that, FFXI level design was cool. The sens of danger is one thing, and the sens of adventure is one other.

[Iromi]

FFXI never had a dangerous world. You either learned quickly how the more dangerous mobs aggroed and just avoided them or you stocked up on Silent Oil and Invisible Dust, completely trivializing any threat besides the occasional True Sight creature. I didn't play EQ very much so I can't comment on that. This is also the kind of thing that starts out fun, but it quickly becomes a tedious chore if you have to pass through the "dangerous" areas a lot.

No danger huh? Let's see you go in 2007 to solo a T - IT mob, without a RDM. Let's see how long you last, oh and get agro from another 1 or 2 monsters, without being RDM to sleep , nuke, sleep nuke. BUT FFXI had no danger..LOL.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Adventure and Danger is dead in MMOs. MMOs are now solo Themepark Moneymaking games, sorry.

The reason for this is simple: Everquest was designed to NOT be a game, but a Virtual World. It was not made to coddle you and hold your hand.

Every encounter in the game was made to be beaten fairly, every class in the game is balanced. Every encounter has meaning and a story.

Everquest however, made encounters that were NOT balanced, classes that had advantages over other classes and designed dungeons and bosses that were seemingly impossible for players to beat. Made gear that was powerful and meant to be abused.

[Iromi]

This. Finally, someone with a realistic outlook on how things used to be compared to today without all this extra crap in an attempt to fluff up what was now (In the grand scheme of things) a terrible idea.

This is like people talking about how a Gremlin was a bad ass car and deserves a ton of praise compared to the typical Toyota Corolla of today.

That is not realistic, that is selfish. You think just because one persons life changed that doesn't mean millions of others peoples lives change in the same way.

[Tyla_Esmeraude]

Jesus people. You pull the I don't have time for that card, I have family, work, stuff all the damn time. Games, MMOs, they have always been a TIME commitment. Do you remember yourself when you didn't have all these responsibilities and would spend hours beating that optional boss in the game? That's because the game required hours of gameplay! You complain you don't have the time to commit to a game, then why the flying chocobo are you playing? You want everything accommodated to you, why not play a game specifically made for your type of market? There is PLENTY of them. The market is saturated with all those crappy games. Just like you tell people to go play other games why don't you take your own advice then?


MMOs are not like in the past because players got used to the eased gameplay, there is no one to blame but devs who started doing so and players who started getting spoiled. That's what happens when people get spoiled, they will whine about being too hard or tedious to do because they are used to the nowdays market that started *devolving* thanks to them. It's like if you were forced to stop using your smart phone and had to revert to a normal cellphone. People would complain about not being able to type on the screen, not being able to use whatsapp, not being able to play 3D games. People would complain about the lack of color variety, the resolution, etc. Whatever it is, people would complain about something, because they got used to the ease. Did people complain before when phones didn't have these things? No, because they didn't know it was possible. They worked with what they had, The market itself has made people believe that they NEED all these new shinies.

Except that's a tool. Tools are made for convenience, to make life easier (and lazier) for people. A game is not a damn tool, it's entertainment. You don't like exploring a ROLE PLAYING GAME, a genre that's been all about developing your character AND exploring the world your character lives in. Then why are you playing this?! Why not go watch a movie instead, you just have to sit down without having to move a finger?

Well great, games have reached a mainstream audience and they are probably doing much more money than before. Good for the Devs, bad for actual gaming. Then people complain that all MMOs are the same now and there's nothing creative or innovative in the market, well to whom do they owe that to? MMOs are in decline and they don't have a very brilliant future(and no, Oculus Rift isn't exactly a brilliant future, specially when people don't want to have to move even ingame) exactly because of this.

You find everything tedious, you just want to sit down there and not have to move your fingers much. Why can't a MMORPG have exploration?! Some people actually like that! Just like you like not having to walk anywhere, there's people that like that and it has nothing to do with "staying in the past" the hell people? Is it the age? You've grown old physically and therefore you have to grow old mentally, too? Games are supposed to be fun! The games you played before were about the fun, exploration, danger. That's what made them fun. And don't tell me it isn't because then why would people have complained about FF13 being too linear with no open world to explore? Why is FFXV now completely the opposite and open world? Maybe because of the FF13 complaints? Would you have found games fun back then if they were easy pie? Could you imagine the same fun with a super easy Mario? Honestly, would you have? This game is so watered down already that it's bland. Do people telling others to "go play FFXI" even care about the game or the game industry at all? That's the worst possible way to grow a community.

There's people with a lot of responsibilities (yes, work, family, etc) who still make time to play and don't whine about things being tedious because god forbids you actually have to PLAY the game. If you can't manage your time that is your problem, but don't make it a game's problem.

You have your very convenient teleports so you can have your own "fun", let people who want the game to be more interesting by letting them have exploration too, as long as you don't have to do it, it doesn't affect you in ANY way. They are customers just like you.

The more I read the OF, the more I want to bang my head against the table. I love the game and want to see it become better, but this community leaves a lot to be desired. I am not a rude nor aggressive person but I've just had enough of people bringing gamers down because they'd like something implemented, telling them to take off their tinted rose glasses, telling them to go play other games, telling them to stop being in the past, belittling them for wanting something different to spice up the game. What you do is very offending, so don't feel offended if you get posts like mine. How you treat others is the way you will be treated. Have some damn respect towards others if you want respect back.

I already know what kind of excuses people are going to post towards the subjective "fun" because they sound like a broken record "fun does not equal tedious, therefore it is no funnnn (funny enough the current dungeon grinding is tedious as well but these same people don't complain about that, eh? Why not?)", so I'll just save myself a headache and leave it as it is.

[odintius]

Time sink/waste and dumbed down are completely two different things. Just to point out to you, hard was arcade games which where made to take your money faster (harder game more deaths, more deaths more coins for resets). There is a reason they did not last with home gaming. Time waste is a 2 year grind to max level where you hit the same mobs for a months to level to get to the next zone and hit a slightly different mob for a month.

Time sinks is in every game to extent the content of particular game and that helps developer for a mmo aspect to create other content not just the $$$ aspect while we go threw said time sink, you can create depth without dumbing it down its called having creative talent.

Dungeons are the same grind just to point that out, you also are hitting the same mob for experience get to next dungeon to hit a slightly different mob same results but in an instance. These are the options we have currently people are asking for more of a variety of those options beside just hitting same mobs in open world >.> <FATES> <.< with there own reward sets in the end were going to be hitting some type of mob.

[Heskett]

There are reasonable time sinks, and then there are dumb time sinks. Taking an unreasonable amount of time reaching your destination due to meandering/fighting enemies follows the latter. It doesn't encourage exploration, it encourages pissing and moaning.

[Warlyx]

FFXI never had a dangerous world. You either learned quickly how the more dangerous mobs aggroed and just avoided them or you stocked up on Silent Oil and Invisible Dust, completely trivializing any threat besides the occasional True Sight creature. I didn't play EQ very much so I can't comment on that. This is also the kind of thing that starts out fun, but it quickly becomes a tedious chore if you have to pass through the "dangerous" areas a lot.

true sight were a joke *run behind* /poke /slap /laugh *mob turns around* <death> <you can have this> ! T_T


1 thing is dangerous world and another is annoying as hell world , the 1 is nearly impossible to create w/o the 2nd

All the dangerous mmos are based around the idea that DEATH hurts (be it exp loss , exp debt , or just having to travel for 15 min to go back where u were )