Dark Knight, or Paladin?

[Valkyrie-Amber]

wrong in this like especially alex savage lower dps tanks have no place in farm groups so plds are worthless unless over geared like by 50 ilevels.

DPS checks matter and kick tanks if lower dps than an equivalent tank such as a pld who does 150+ less dps than an equivalent dark.

Im speaking simple end game where people would love to skip one min or two by taking the more dpsy classes.

[Phoenicia]

wrong in this like especially alex savage lower dps tanks have no place in farm groups so plds are worthless unless over geared like by 50 ilevels.

DPS checks matter and kick tanks if lower dps than an equivalent tank such as a pld who does 150+ less dps than an equivalent dark.

Im speaking simple end game where people would love to skip one min or two by taking the more dpsy classes.

If a party blames their lack of DPS on the tank then they suck. Simple as that. Unless that tank is doing 200 DPS.

A PLD brings so much utility that the group as a whole brings the same DPS as any other MT.

[Valkyrie-Amber]

but again end game farming take pld mt war ot then take 2 + minutes longer than a run that would go a smoothly for two mins less+ with drk+war.

[Phoenicia]

but again end game farming take pld mt war ot then take 2 + minutes longer than a run that would go a smoothly for two mins less+ with drk+war.

You must be joking if you really think that 100 DPS difference is going to make the fight last 2 minutes longer. Unless the fight originally lasts something like 2 hours.

If you think the difference between PLD and DRK DPS is more than 100 in an actual fight, then you've been playing with really bad PLDs (or you are one) that have no idea of how to DPS as PLD. PLDs can parse 800 DPS on a dummy. DRK can do like what, 910? that DPS was parsed back when Dark Arts had the bug where you could buff 2 abilities at the same time and that bug was abused. In a real fight PLD and DRK are REALLY close to one another with DRK having a slight advantage.

DRK toolkit is lacking behind PLD which requires more healing attention, look at Living Dead. PLD cooldowns are EASIER to plan around and a good healer can plan around the PLD's CDs and plan their DPS for maximum up-time.

With equally skilled PLD and DRK, at most, the difference in RAID DPS would be 100 DPS. If you think that's a reason enough to kick a PLD, then you are no better than those parties I'm calling bad. ANd if you think 7600 raid DPS is MUCH worse than 7700 raid DPS then you REALLY need to rethink the way you approach things in this game.

[pandabearcat]

I don't see anyone parsing 800 dps as a pld on dummy, if they also keep up rage for the damage debuff (and likely, if they're mt, aggro issues).

No pot no food, on a dummy since PLD has literally no variation or skill in its rotation, does around 670-700 with sword oath at ilvl185 w/ hive weapon.

With shield oath its down to around 460-500.

[Freyyy]

I don't see anyone parsing 800 dps as a pld on dummy, if they also keep up rage for the damage debuff (and likely, if they're mt, aggro issues).

No pot no food, on a dummy since PLD has literally no variation or skill in its rotation, does around 670-700 with sword oath at ilvl185 w/ hive weapon.

With shield oath its down to around 460-500.

No pot, no food, on a dummy, I do around 810+ with sword oath at ilvl188 with hive weapon. And that's without the slashing debuff.

Make sure you get 2 Goring Blade, 2 CoS, SW and 3 full RA combos during your FoF.

[pandabearcat]

No pot, no food, on a dummy, I do around 810+ with sword oath at ilvl188 with hive weapon. And that's without the slashing debuff.

Make sure you get 2 Goring Blade, 2 CoS, SW and 3 full RA combos during your FoF.

There is no way not to lol, unless you just afk. When are you stopping your parse? I'm just not seeing the damage people are saying. Either I am not parsing dots correctly or people are posting inflated parses.

Also please note I am talking about using RoH instead of RA, if you're keeping up the debuff, instead of double RA. I don't feel that is a representative dps number unless you are OT as a pld, which is just...the worst.

[Phoenicia]

Snip.

Doesn't matter how much you parse on a dummy. Dummies do not represent real fight and only succeed in inflating the DPS gap between classes.

Also sacrificing 10% STR debuff for extra DPS is NOT a bad trade-off. WAR lets Storm Path drop for Storm's Edge when main tanking and it does NOT kill them. Btw, Storm's Path is far more potent than 10% STR debuff.

If a DRK parses 100 DPS ahead of PLD on a dummy, then the gap is even less than 100 in real fights. If, for god knows whatever reason, 100 DPS is what you were missing to meet that enrage timer, you have bigger problems. Hint: It is NOT the tank!!

[Dante_V]

Doesn't matter how much you parse on a dummy. Dummies do not represent real fight and only succeed in inflating the DPS gap between classes.

Also sacrificing 10% STR debuff for extra DPS is NOT a bad trade-off. WAR lets Storm Path drop for Storm's Edge when main tanking and it does NOT kill them. Btw, Storm's Path is far more potent than 10% STR debuff.


If a DRK parses 100 DPS ahead of PLD on a dummy, then the gap is even less than 100 in real fights. If, for god knows whatever reason, 100 DPS is what you were missing to meet that enrage timer, you have bigger problems. Hint: It is NOT the tank!!

This is completely disingenuous. Anyone who has fought faust on release can tell you that even with 4 dps pulling max numbers the check is unattainable without tank DPS. The savage fights are outwardly designed to require large amounts of tank and even healer dps on release. the tanks NEED to be pulling 600+ at least if not more depending on party comp. The reality of hardcore content is that dps matter a lot and considering the rate of success of A1 savage clears across the board (or lack thereof,) it's pretty disingenuous to assume that tank dps shouldn't matter when it objectively does. If you can't pull at LEAST 600+ dps on your tank you have no place on a savage progression team at this point.

Also pound for pound when MTing, drk pulls ahead of paladin substantially as drk can use dps stance and tank stance at the same time while pallys cannot. This further exacerbates the damage differential between the two when compared as MT on fights. The difference between their dps is GREATER on fights than on dummies where they are not in tank stance.

[pandabearcat]

Just fyi, if we take conservative estimates of all dps pulling 1000 dps, healers pulling 500 together, and tanks pulling 500 each, a tank pulling 100 more dps would get your kill...3 seconds faster.

Hmm...

At this point if even the damage debuffs tanks apply is meaningless, then we have a serious degenerate playstyle for tanks where they are mindless, positional-less and rotationless dps with survivability cooldowns.

I am not saying this playstyle is wrong given the content we currently have, but I am saying SE designed the game wrong if this is the way we should be playing.