how long do you think 14 will last?

[Catwho]

At this point in FFXI's life there was only Rise of the Zilart, and getting to {sky} or land gods were pretty much your options for endgame content from the expansion. Dynamis was considered part of the base game and not expansion content, iirc.

CoP is often cited as everyone's fav XI expansion, for its amazing story, serious challenges with genuine content gates (Airship 6-4 lol), and strong endgame with {sea} farming or Limbus as your weekly stuff. {sky} and land gods also remained relevent, so there were four areas of endgame you could do from expansion, on top of Dynamis (which itself was later expanded to include the CoP nightmare zones.)

But we won't get our CoP until the next expansion.

[DukeBurden]

At this point in FFXI's life there was only Rise of the Zilart, and getting to {sky} or land gods were pretty much your options for endgame content from the expansion. Dynamis was considered part of the base game and not expansion content, iirc.

CoP is often cited as everyone's fav XI expansion, for its amazing story, serious challenges with genuine content gates (Airship 6-4 lol), and strong endgame with {sea} farming or Limbus as your weekly stuff. {sky} and land gods also remained relevent, so there were four areas of endgame you could do from expansion, on top of Dynamis (which itself was later expanded to include the CoP nightmare zones.)

But we won't get our CoP until the next expansion.

And how long after Rise of the Zilart was Sky relevant? A VERY long time. How relevant is FFXIV's 2.0 Endgame raid? Glamours...

[Kaedan94]

And how long after Rise of the Zilart was Sky relevant? A VERY long time. How relevant is FFXIV's 2.0 Endgame raid? Glamours...

That's because the level cap stayed at 75 for soooooo long. All the content of FFXI that was created for 50-60 was trivialized. Same as with Heavensward. You'll only see long lasting content like Sea or Sky once FF14 has an expansion without a level cap increase.

[Arixtotle]

And how long after Rise of the Zilart was Sky relevant? A VERY long time. How relevant is FFXIV's 2.0 Endgame raid? Glamours...

Do people just forget about story or do I just happen to find the threads with people who care nothing about it?

PS. I WoW we used to go back and do old raids ALL THE TIME. No content is ever fully irrelevent. Especially if it has rare drops or achievements.

[DarkStaoneDragon]

I did a search on youtube and found this video made by mmorpg and I found it to be informative, pay attention to the first question they asked about getting out of the WoW model moreless.

[KisaiTenshi]

I did a search on youtube and found this video made by mmorpg and I found it to be informative, pay attention to the first question they asked about getting out of the WoW model moreless.

There's not a lot of ground being broken in that video. Note that the direction on how they answered "AI"

"It's very easy to write AI that will always beat the player, but that's no fun."

Yes Captain obvious. It's not "better AI" we want, it's emergent gameplay we want where AI players and "Player" players have their own wants and needs for participating in a quest or activity, and the AI players and monsters completely reflect those needs and aren't deconstructable by a data miner. It shouldn't be easy to go straight to the strongest prop in the game and bludgeon the content with it.

Notice how the AI is in Alexander T4 where it picks off one tank and one DPS'ing player to throw into the vents. How one mechanic specifically targets the healers. That is fun to anticipate and you can't just ignore the mechanics and let people get carried.

The extent of AI adaption in the game is with the FATES, where they become harder with the faster they are defeated. That's not really emergent gameplay, that's just difficulty scaling to prevent any one FATE from being too spamable (particuarly by bots.)


But we need to also move past the "combatpark" and "craftingpark" division in the game. The existing FFXIV game allows you to completely ignore the crafting aspect of the game entirely, it may as well not exist. There are no activities aside from the Ixal beast quests that even require leveling a crafting or gathering skill. Everything else is combat. There's nothing in the game that requires both Combat AND Crafting players/npc's to work together.

A lot of games, especially MMOgames focus too much on the gear grind, itself that by the time you acquire all the "good" pieces to make the content a pushover the next piece of content comes out with new gear and the cycle begins again. Like I like the idea of the "tomes" for eventually acquiring better gear parts as a reward for the time invested, but at the same time, it makes it look like crafting has no purpose at all.

[Magistrella]

[...]how it's been going for 13 years and managed to keep about 500k or so for a good amount of time and isn't a WoW clone[...]

Easy to answer with a question: How many MMOs have been there 2001-2005 - how many MMOs are there now to choose from - success from the end 90s to the mid 2000s cant be compared to anything after 2005 when kinda everyone and their grandma tried to make a MMO. MMOs are more accessible to a wider variety of people now, of course - but most people that play MMOs now would have never played XI. Its by far the worst game when it comes to casuals, does not reward you for your work except if you put huge amounts of time in etc. It would be flamed to death and left to die quicker then you can say MMORPG now. I doubt it lives from new people coming to it like most MMOs do now, but from players that stay there because they dont want to leave/don't see a good alternative

And how long after Rise of the Zilart was Sky relevant? A VERY long time. How relevant is FFXIV's 2.0 Endgame raid? Glamours...

Well, and why is that? Equipment System in XI was completely different and until Abyssea the level cap stayed at 75 for nearly 7 years.

Dont compare apples and oranges please...

[Obysuca]

does not reward you for your work except if you put huge amounts of time in etc.

Because that's how life works? If someone puts in 1 hour of work and someone puts in 10 hours of work, the person putting in less time should not have the same stuff as the person putting in more, at least not at the same time as them. What's with kids(even people in their 20s) these days and wanting the same reward for little to no work as someone who actually puts in the time and effort for it?

[Magistrella]

snip

Ever played XI?

Guess not, because then you would know what i mean by investing time:
Leveling a class alone before the lolAbysseaEXPtrain could take up to 200 hours playtime, not the first time, go for 400 on your first due to sublass+capquests+firstmaat, not to mention the time you need for more subclasses that had to be 37(of max 75 back then), which would probably take you a week (per class) if you got lucky with groups and 8+h a day to play - oh, and if you were a whm you better lvled that rdm/blm/smn and later sch for that. Pretty similar for other classes.
The time you needed to get certain spells for a class (Utsusemi:Ichi / :Ni were a long time BCNM drops only or the teleport spells or rdm Refresh etc.).
The time you needed to actually get somewhere. Hey, you just missed that airship? Oh, you better stand around and wait 6 min for it to come back and then wait another 5 to get to the city or you teleport (or pay someone money to teleport you if you didnt have a whm) and run for 5 minutes to get somewhere. Welcome to hellokittyonline where you can teleport everywhere
The time you invested when you wanted to craft something. Level a crafting class? Well, better get gathering mats then because the game doesn't shove up money up your ass so you can get started on your first craft nu-uh - not to mention that if you wanted to get to 100 on a class you better level 2 others to 60 or you couldnt craft cheap leveling recipes. Oh, and droprates on monsters in XIV are heaven compared to XI - or gathering rates. Wanted to make Darksteel Ingots? Well, you better run around a mine that has mining spots that everyone can mine and make vanish and have a random chance of 7.5% to get a Darksteel Ore - you need 2 to make an Ingot - happy times! 1 hour running around, if you're lucky you got 10-15 ores

But hey - it could be just different uses of "huge time" - because for me as an ex XI player XIV is a walk in the park (except the new red scrip fail) compared to anything i had to do back then


P.S.: And dont make assumptions about peoples age by reading a text - you're most likely to be wrong. Btw - they keyword is accessibility - not instant reward

[Obysuca]

Ever played XI?

Actually I have, for 11 years. I had 5 75s before WotG came out, I know how exping was and know what? I enjoyed it. Way better than the whole "get your job to cap within 2-3 days then sit in one spot queueing for the same dungeon". I didn't even mind the 10 hours seeking on pup for a pt either. And ichi was an easy quest >_> it could be easily done in a few hours.

I didn't throw a fit like most people do now if someone has something they don't. If you saw someone with relic or gear you didn't have, it was fine, that person earned it for the time put in (even if the whole ls gave them their currency, they still did stuff for it). People now cry for nerfs and hand outs for gear, when before, rare gear was accepted as "never obtainable" if you didn't put in the time, which was great, it made things rare and gave you a great feeling if you actually got it.