i got it how to fix AST!!!!

[Vlady]

Let the astrologian swap stances in combat via cooldown and somehow let T he shields play nice with scholar shields. That way they can play the way they was designed. Just do not let astros stack in the same stance.

[SirShuffles]

Let the astrologian swap stances in combat via cooldown and somehow let T he shields play nice with scholar shields. That way they can play the way they was designed. Just do not let astros stack in the same stance.

If Astro shields stacked with SCH shields you'd have parties double stacking shields, on top of Collective Unconscience, Sacred Soil, and Bole mitigation to practically ignore mechanics. I don't see SE doing this.

[Reivur]

If Astro shields stacked with SCH shields you'd have parties double stacking shields, on top of Collective Unconscience, Sacred Soil, and Bole mitigation to practically ignore mechanics. I don't see SE doing this.

So what you're implying is there would be a reason to take one over a White Mage instead of no reason at all.
Just playing Devil's Advocate here. :P

[HeavensSword]

So what you're implying is there would be a reason to take one over a White Mage instead of no reason at all.
Just playing Devil's Advocate here. :P

You don't make a job more desirable by invalidating another. The goal should be the ability to take WHM/AST or SCH/AST without feeling like you should have gone WHM/SCH.

[Reivur]

You don't make a job more desirable by invalidating another. The goal should be the ability to take WHM/AST or SCH/AST without feeling like you should have gone WHM/SCH.

I'm actually curious how you find the rolling AoE that lasts significantly longer than a pre-built shield stack "invalidation". Shield Buffering brings value in two ways; sneaking past vitality checks by buffering people's max hp beyond a raid or tank buster, and... Well actually that's pretty much it. Scholar has pretty great mana generation/tools to work with themselves. Ast's was improved, but bottom line on this has always been that beyond shields not synergizing with Time Dilation or Celestial Opposition you run into the problem where shield buffering is significantly less efficient than Diurnal's regen by a mile-- even factoring in that you get 5% more healing potency in Nocturnal.

Are you going to claim that shredding having a healer who tries to double up on shields is going to somehow magically be efficient in raids with costs the way they are? Sure, there's an obligatory Bard or Machinist somewhere to help patch up the mp, but that's just hurting your raid's damage output (Another current complaint about the healers as well, by the way) to substitute for its sustainability. And even then anything that pulses damage regularly will be a bigger strain. And anytime a fight is spread out? Medica II's range and HoT is a godsend. And don't forget you outright lose the Mind buff in this combination. There are legitimate trade-offs here, not invalidation. By the logic presented here apparently Whm/Ast can't work because they're invalidated by Scholars-- because I'm not seeing the few Asts who do this content in Nocturnal as it is.

[HeavensSword]

-snip-

You are assuming things and placing words in my mouth.

Your comment that was replying to Shuffles comment:

If Astro shields stacked with SCH shields you'd have parties double stacking shields, on top of Collective Unconscience, Sacred Soil, and Bole mitigation to practically ignore mechanics. I don't see SE doing this.

He basically makes the claim that AST/SCH with stacking shields would be too strong and "practically ignore mechanics".

You reply with basically "lol well at least it would be a reason to take it over WHM" and don't even bother with refuting why he may be misguided.

I probably assumed too much of you as well, but my reply was mainly against the idea of "well as long as my class gets picked".

[Reivur]

You are assuming things and placing words in my mouth.

Your comment that was replying to Shuffles comment:

Quite true. But given the current parameters there's absolutely no frickin' way there would be a mass exodus of White Mages from such a change unless a series of fights emerged specifically designed around infrequent, massive timed spikes. Currently most of Savage is shaping out to be persistent periodic damage with semi-frequent tank busters that requires a lot of periodic healing in-between. There would be an advantage, and a disadvantage versus "No advantages at all". All I'm saying.

Even so... you really don't see how saying invalidating the other class was hyperbole to an extreme? I suppose I didn't outline the pros and cons of each composition, but since he listed the pros you'd think he'd give an ounce of credence to the cons given that there's about 5 top threads here listing as many cons as they can possibly manage to muster about the class, be they real or imagined.

[Diakato]

Noct Sect:
Let the shields stack with SCH but nerf the potency some if the player already has the galvanize effect. Cut shield potency for AST in half if the SCH already tossed out an adlo or succor. Same applies for SCH if AST has shield up first. Under Noct the Aspected benefic should get a crit modifier but again just nerf the potency instead of a crit giving you double the shield it gives you 1.5x. These number are just some examples. I'm sure they'd have to play around with the potency reductions to keep it balanced.

Diurnal sect: AST regens should stack with each other. WHM x2 can stack medica 2s and regens so why can’t ASTS?

Base job changes: Reworking the benefic trait would do wonders. I liked an idea I read on the forum somewhere about changing it to a percentage chance to reset Essential Dignity. The trait change could allow more use of Essential Dignity giving them more access to the primary burst heal of AST while maintaining the RNG style theme of the job.